What is P&M up to?

Hi Mangrove, I will be talking to my son this weekend, he lives in the bush on the Hope Saddle and has no power or landline there. relies on a mobile. We are indeed hobby miners. I’m coming up 89 and this boy of mine bought this claim with the idea of using a prototype dredge I have built. Will discuss trying to quit 60 kilometers of the claim and retaining approx. 1 kilometre. Is there a way we can do this without reapplying for a permit
Will certainly throw it your way if we can’t get our head around the forms. Many thanks for your offer. It was so simple in 1969-70. The only hassle was the Catchment Board.

Mangrove, I would assume that the miners that are working claims have a fair idea of what their output can be and of course if it can cover the extra expense then they are fine. But for the like of us guys, who have not even seen the claim nor have a dredge on the water, then that figure looks humongous.

Happy to help…but remember 60km long with a riverbed say 2.5m either side of the centreline is not a lot of square kilometres so whether you have a 10km long claim or a 50km long claim may not be much in terms of your annual fees…just PM me if you want advice

If it is $2000 for one square Kilometre then for a river bed 10ks long and 20m wide it would only be $200 a year if my maths is right however on that I have my reservations taking this sort of information into account - its scary BUT clearly designed to suppress good old Kiwis and allow the large bankers mates to take over and pillage our country. The trouble with ordinary people they are too complacent and like sheepies follow along and complain but do nothing else so that they get tread all over


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Can I ask when this came out? Early this year there was a plan to change fees. The fee was only raised to $1000 for most dredging claims with a review in 2019. So before everyone sh*ts them self maybe you should look into this again. My claim cost went up but maxed out at $1000 and I have about 23km of river.

Check your info before you ruin to many pair of pants mate.

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Who are you talking to? You point out the info.so we can all see it. What I gave above is self explanatory if its me you refer to.

Hi Goldstampx, I had rang to clarify some of the Royalty regulations as we had not started dredging the claim that we had just purchased. In the process I paid an outstanding rental invoice of $450.00 dollars… In doing so I remarked it seemed a lot of money for an unknown factor and saying that royalty from any gain should be sufficient payment.it was then that she told me that our claim would cost us $2000.00 per km or the lessor. I then said, you have to be kidding, she replied that it was true. I was lost for good words and only a four lettered one was able to burst from my lips, .because that meant our claim was now up to $124000.00 me thinks the guy that sold us this knew about this hike and his story of wanting the money to send his daughter to uni was just an little white one.
I would like to think that some where there has ro be a control on this sort of thing… They come down pretty quick when landlords hike rents. Should I try, I will go if you find me another claim I can afford. That’s what Landlords have to do for tenants when they want them out.

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Yeah I reckon a lot of people knew that the fee increase wasn’t worth the claim. There was a guy who said he was getting too old, he had quite a large claim. It will be interesting to watch the nzpam maps to see if there is a clear out. Seems like there are massive areas the government has put a hold on new claims - are they trying to clear people out of these remote areas?
Along with remoteness, doc bearacracy, fee increases - I predict in the future they’ll add some caveat about selling certain claims in “environmentally significant” areas.

Dear Permit Holder,
Following consultation the Government has increased petroleum and minerals permit fees. The new fee schedules are attached and this change will come into effect on 1 January 2017. You will receive an invoice around the end of the year reflecting the fee increase between 1 January and 30 June 2017.

I appreciate that any increase, no matter what the size, will be unwelcome. However we are required to recover the cost of administering permits from permit holders. Fees have not been substantially reviewed for some time, resulting in a widening gap between the cost of administering permits and what permit holders were paying.
We consulted on two options, one which would have recouped the gap over six years and another over a shorter period. The Government has adopted the first option – to recoup the gap in costs over six years – with minor adjustments to ease the impact on permit holders.
The main adjustment is that we lowered the minimum fee for Tier 2 minerals mining permits (including hobby permits) from $1,400 to $1,000. We have slightly increased the annual fee on an area rate for minerals mining permits to ensure that we are still recovering the overall cost.

Some submitters raised issues that were outside the scope of the 2016 fees review. We have listened to this feedback and these additional issues will be examined in the next fees review in 2019.
Please note that, due to our offices being shut between 24 December 2016 and 3 January 2017, hard copy applications received after 23 December 2016 will be date stamped 4 January 2017, and will be charged the new fees. In order to ensure you are charged the old application fee prior to 1 January 2017, please lodge any permit applications online after 23 December 2016 and before 1 January 2017, or ensure a hard copy application is received by us by 23 December 2016 at the latest.
If you provided a submission, thank you for your feedback during the consultation period.

If you have any queries please email HYPERLINK “mailto:nzpam@mbie.govt.nz” nzpam@mbie.govt.nz or call 0508 263 782.
Yours sincerely

Copy and pasted from an email I received.

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These injustices do not just target gold mining. They target many other walks of life…All designed to place New Zealand fair and square into the ownership of the off shore bankers so that the only ones who can afford a thing will be the wealthy. The politicians serve the bankers and not the people who voted them into power. The ordinary people need to form a ‘citizens federation’ to protect the rights of those who SHOULD own the country and regardless of the problem, whether it be rights to own firearms, rights to access our own estate (mountains, rivers, state owned land, beaches etc), to go gold mining and take out a claim and many other areas where rights are being eroded then the Citizens Federation would use it’s power to force the government’s hand so that the foreign powers and offshore bankers to whom we owe a perceived debt (under a fair borrowing system it would have been paid back years ago) would not have any say over the decisions made by government - decisions made by a true people’s government for the good of the people and the country and to uphold the rights of the Citizens. Oh and only New Zealand born citizens would have the right to vote…I just had to add that.

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Well hope things get better in 2019.

Hi Lammerlaw,
The fee is $2000 per square kilometre or something like $1,610 per annum…the highest number is the one they apply. so if your claim was say 20km x 10m being 20ha, being 0.2 square kilometres, you will pay the higher fee of $1,610per annum

Hi Mangrove

With a name like that you have to be a Northlander or Aucklander - I will be there in two weeks - love up there. Now to business…can you explain this then…have a read


We have owned several claims - I was the claim holder of the Waitahuna Copper Lode and we had several gold claims. We did all the work on our own and my father was an expert at Mining Legislation such that when I went to the Mines Department they referred me to him! We have always kept up with mining legislation and it does seem that there just might be something a bit dismal in the offering. New Zealanders are getting hammered every which way and it is clearly apparent that the system does NOT want ordinary Kiwis gold mining…simple as that. At this point the schedule I have shown you above does not appear to reflect what the thread author seems to think so I think you are closer to the truth.
I do not see where it is per sq km either except OFFSHORE. It is a flat fee regardless of length of claim if I have got it right.

I gave up the last of our claims years ago because I could see the writing on the wall. even back then.

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GOLD is good.



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For a guy who seems to think he is a mining expert, you sure seem to have a hard time sorting this out.
Last year PandM sent out the thing you keep posting about different rates for permits. After probably everyone said they would drop there claims, they went and changed the price for most people with a teir 2 permit to a maximum of $1000. If you look at the date on your form, you will see it is from 2016. We are now in 2017 and everyone should have been sent a fee increase that was to be paid by the end of January 2017.
Since you have no claims, I don’t understand why you are making such a big deal about this. It does not affect you at all. Mangrove is not from anywhere close to northland or auckland, and to my knowledge knows a lot more about mining laws in NZ then you seem to. And all this is coming from someone not born in NZ. But since I wasn’t born here, I guess I know nothing important about this whole situation.

Hope this sorts out your questions.

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Some people are stupid enough to jump to conclusions - please quote my words that said I am a mining expert. I do not get any updates or anything from P & M. In my day it was the Department of Mines’ or ‘Mines Department’ Interesting as I made no big deal about anything. Cant a person make a statement without some twit jumping on them AND making a false claim - I repeat - I DID NOT CLAIM TO BE AN EXPERT - If you have dyslexia and cant read then fair enough other wise read my last statement. I also do not have any trouble sorting anything out and I think that what I said is cut and dried and cut and paste - ok so it may not be the latest and those who get.updates might be ahead of the play and fair enough.
Any statements I made above about my claim experiences refer to the era from the 1960s to the end of the 1990s so bound to be out oof date but given for comparison as to what it once was like…
Fyi I merely cut and paste the Crown minerals fee review so that every body could read it for themselves then of course I get some one who jumps down my throat.
You stated ‘But since I wasn’t born here, I guess I know nothing important about this whole situation’ - probably the most truthful statement you have ever made! When are you going back home?

Now I shall wait for the quote where I claimed to be an expert!

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My apologies, this is from the NZPAM site:

Anywy, no I’m not an Aucklander, am in sunny Dunedin. I was called Aotea but something when wrong with my access so made a new login and called it Mangrove as some mates call me mangrove- as I am known for my unusual roots. Apparently.


Sorry Lammerlaw. I know you didn’t say you were an expert. I just figured that since you said your dad was, the apple didn’t fall far from the tree. Guses I was wrong.
Anyways. I am not planning on heading home anytime soon. Going to be around for the next vote at least. I have my claim to pillage for all the gold before I head home. Maybe if I keep running into the likes of people like you down here, I will take all my money back home with me and buy a nice fancy house over seas. Why invest into NZ when your not welcome here?

Hopefully that sorts this fee increase out, along with how some feel about non nz born people enjoying the nz life.

Interesting old world isnt it - never said you werent welcome here - just asked when you are heading home - all my offshore mates have gone home to visit their rellies or to visit the land of their birth or parents birth…pretty common I would think.!

Taiho fellas, I did not want you to get so serious, I was just looking for some help to get my head around what P & M were on about… Thank you all for your inext.