Anyone else tired of activists using kids for their dirty work?

Off Topic
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Hi Madgoldnz- Sure no worries

Its a good question and Im not sure I have the right answer as its a little outside my area of expertise and its also a really complex question. So ill attempt to elaborate a little on it. Here goes, Bear with me:

Scientists have a pretty good idea of the mechanisms of man made climate change and what has caused it. The science on this is overwhelming and continues to strengthen every day. We (and I use this term collectively) also have an understanding of what impacts this is going to have on the planet as well as our social fabric. This is also advancing and we are getting better at understanding this as well.

  1. We know what causes climate change - Mainly C02 but there are other gases such as Methane CH4 and Nitrous Oxide N20 ( collectively called greenhouse gases) as well as others.
  2. We know where these gases come from- Mainly the burning of fossil fuels due to combustion.
  3. And we know the affects of rising levels of greenhouse gases has on the planet- Greater heat in the atmosphere, greater ocean acidification, changes to food systems, sea level rise etc etc

Therefore the question becomes what impact does this have on humans. Now thats massively complex question as well with an equally complex and evolving answer but I think you get the drift that it has a lot of negative affects for example distribution to food systems, reduction in fresh water, desertification, famine, coastal inundation etc etc . It also has some positive affects such as areas that were not suitable for agriculture are now becoming suitable eg the Steppes of Russia and Canada (Ironically these countries will benefit the most from climate change) but im digressing

Therefore what do we need to do to limit its impact on Us the people of the world and part of this requires the following:

  1. Moving away from a carbon based economy
  2. Reducing the amount of carbon we burn
  3. Better utilization of resources eg waste recycling
  4. Protection of food systems that will be affected by climate change
  5. managing the displacement of people affected by climate change
  6. Protecting the natural world eg forests which act as carbon sinks
    This list is by no means the only things but I want to try and keep it simple and not waffle

With the above 6 or so points we need a combination of technology and and change within ourselves to make these changes. This requires investment in everything from new technologies as well as a push from governments to push people in the right direction. Yes part of this is legislation.

Its this last point that I think is where the need for political action is required. We know humans are social animals and we also know that in order for a group(meaning our society) to change or adapt requires leaders that are willing to make hard decisions so as to bring about change for the better.

Here are some examples I think that require political action that will benefit us (Once again this is just of the top of my head and is by no means all or the most important things we need to do)

  • Investment in renewable energy sources as well as fusion technology
  • Uptake of nuclear energy
  • Exploring and mining of natural gas ( Used as a transition away from coal and oil based power systems) until greener technologies come online (NZ has huge reserves of this)
  • Investment in GM modified plants so as to increase crop yields and grow in harsh environments
  • Electrification of transport and the use of self driving vehicles. Better Public transport infrastructure
  • Better waste management ie recycling
  • The uptake of biodegradable packaging so as to reduce plastic usage
  • The move away from heavy meat based diets to a more sustainable and plant based diet and also synthetic meats (Trust me I like a good steak and im not advocating we ban steak )

Some of the above is controversial to some and its going to require massive changes in how we do things. This requires leaders that can bring us to where we need to go. Thats not an easy feat and requires serious political and cultural change.

Im hopeful though as the benefits of moving to a more sustainable and technological future will result in hugely massive benefits and economic prosperity. Already we are seeing the benefits of this through advances in health technologies, new materials, smarter cities, reductions in infant mortality , better access to potable water etc etc

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to be fully honest humans deserve the punishment for exploiting the planet. keep on the current path and let a correction occur then if anyones left rebuild from there and learn from the past mistakes.

BTW I think worrying about climate change is a total waste of time and resources, we be long gone or at least most of us due to war, virus etc.

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Thats a great philosophy to have. Very well thought out. Kinda like the alcohol free beer or taking your goldfish for a walk.

In fact its kinda hypocritical too, on one hand advocating that we deserve the punishment for exploiting the planet yet at the same time advocating a philosophy of “lets just keep on the current path” with our head up our assess type of approach and also at the same time claiming you’ll be long gone to not have to worry about the consequences. I could think of many words to describe it but I wont.

The thing is with your philosophies such as yours is they dont hold much weight, there just noise with no substance a bit like diet water. Theres no responsibility in that, there is no striving to be better, there is no reaching for the stars there is only take take take.

You see when push comes to shove humans have the extraordinary ability to get shit done- think the mobilization of the our country and our allies during world war 1 and 2 to defeat a common enemy or the ability to put a man on the moon or the ability to lift 1 billion people out of abject poverty and provide them with clean drinking water and electricity since the year 2000 or our ancestors sailing half way round the world and landing in a country to try and make a better life- Honorable things

You see I dont subscribe to that type of philosophy. I believe you take responsibility for your situation and try and do something about it and strive to be better and not subscribe to irrational belief, fear and ideology (its hard man and believe me we are all guilty of falling into that trap) . Its the story of mankind really from humble beginnings on the African Savannah to where we are at the moment . Its in our genes and its who we are!. You cant get away from it. Its in our DNA man!

And that sir is why your philosophy will never work.

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and you just mistook my comments to fit your own narrative.

plain and simple, sail on down the path we are headed and face the punishment eg humans go extinct or near too.

humans are a cancer on this planet, we bring no good, we just take for our own selfish needs. the hysteria to combat climate change proves that point :slight_smile:

why does the human race have to continue? Selfishness and emotion theres no other reason, we offer zero benefit to the planet and our co-inhabitants.

we could stop wasting time and resources curing illness and disease, just go with the flow in regards to climate change,war, epedemic etc and what will be will be We would naturaly depopulate and eventually stabilize.

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Prich385, you have expanded on and said it far more eloquently than I did. Unfortunately some leaders are adverse to changing anything …the felling and out of control fires in the Amazon being an example. Another off the top of my head is the continued use of 1080 in NZ. Ecosystems are fairly fragile, yet can be repaired through careful management and time, albeit at the cost of losing some species.

I guess what it simply comes down to is BALANCE. For every action there is an equal if not more, reaction, or if you like cause and effect. I agree steps nèed to be taken to “bring all back into balance”. Rape and pillage of the land and oceans by either war, farming, industrial, development etc with no thought to future effect will lead to our demise. This includes Councils with no thought to the future effect of their planning. Another long topic.

I agree with those who say leave the kids out of this excuse to skip school for the day. Educate the kids on pollution, ecosystems and simply picking up rubbish…leave the kids to have their short kids life and leave them in school to learn…hopefully they will become bright enough to solve or even mitigate a lot of our problems.

The word “climate change” (whether you agree or not it is happening,) tends to lump those who believe in Global Warming as Activists to those who call it “pollution and filth” believing global warming to be a natural cycle of the earth (much like the Ice Age) into 2 groups…which is right??? I dont know, but I do know I pick up rubbish when detecting…except filthy nappies!!! Really people…take the damn things home! And…STOP leaving faecal matter in swimming holes too!!!

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Nah didn’t mistake anything man. Its clear as day and night what you wrote. Own it man!

My narrative- Oh you mean taking responsibility for our situation and trying to better not just ourselves as individuals and but also as a species. You mean by actually admitting there is a problem and going Ok- How do we solve this. Did I get this right ? After all I would hate for you to mistook any of my comments.

See this is the bit im confused on- On one hand you say I mistook your comments, then on the other hand you say things like

If im not mistaken isn’t that essentially what I presumably mistook from your previous post. Once again man feel free to correct me or else just own your comments.

You see when it comes to acting out your - “Just let things happen, stop wasting time on diseases, climate change blah blah and let nature take its course” sort of philosophy lets just take a moment to think what that would look like. I think most people would agree it wouldn’t look very pretty ie death and depravity. Unless you have a better scenario feel free to chip in

You say we offer zero benefit to the planet and its co inhabitants- Relative to what? You see evolution is pushing us and we will continue to push and reach for the stars and become better. You cant stop that man. Your naive if you think you can

Anyway really interesting topic and thanks for your input and your point of view dude. Im a big believer in exploring what others think and seeing things from a different perspective. Diversity of opinion is one of the greatest things that sets us apart from from other animals.

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Thanks Coilpower. Yes I agree Balance is really important

Yeah there definatley is a lot of misinformation out there on the topic of global warming. And I suppose I can see why as its a massively complex issue. Part of our own behavior as humans is when we are faced with a massively complex issue we tend either to go “what the hell am I supposed to do” or deny it exists. Both are survival mechanisms.

The trick is as you elude to is to become educated on the issue and ask questions and seek the truth and to put your opinion in a forthright manner.

In the case of global warming that we are talking about is something that has been driven by humans.Simply as you burn trillions of tons of fossil fuels and we have done particularly quickly since the start of the industrial revolution you increase the levels of greenhouse gases. Greenhouse gases trap heat within a closed system like earth. This leads to a increase in the average temperature.

There are natural global warming events that have happened in the past. These have occurred due to changes within the natural carbon cycle. I wont go into what caused them as its beyond the scope of this conversation but the main point is that these events happened over longer period of geological time which allowed species to adapt and therefore survive. Also we weren’t around in the numbers we were back in those times

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you mistook it as advocating 2 opposing views and called me a hypocrite.
It was 2 seperate statements both made with the same viewpoint.

Its pretty obvious we wont agree so debate is useless, plus it seems youre as brainwashed as the rest and I dont have the millions of dollars available to subliminally message you through your phone and tv to convince you otherwise.

As I said complete waste of time and resources we all be dead long before climate change fucks us. plus side of it is im guna sit back and laugh at the ponsy cunts houses fall into the ocean :slight_smile: hopfully ill get to see that

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ice age every 100k years. Climate change is cyclical and the fact humans have contributed has only sped it up and thats irrelevant really as it was guna happen anyway just 20k years early isnt even a blip on earths timeline.

also you realise the carbom we realease now was once alive or apart of our atmosphere right?
Co2 levels are at a low point of earths history (note earth history not human) so how is it that its bad for it to rise when its already been higher for billions of years? Natural cycle and humans have a bad habbit of fucking with nature and losing :slight_smile: timeline is irrelevant the outcome is the same, past species didnt have a well developed brain or tech to help addapt.
btw i believe tech will be the downfall of climate hysteria, were too busy looking for an advanced solution which will fail or cost too much and cause a revolt. K.I.S.S

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Whatever the hell that means. Sounds like marketing speak to me.
Yeap you hit the nail on the head- Your position is hypocritical. Does that make you a hypocrite - Thats for you to answer.

brainwashed - Hold on while I reset my irony meter.
Common man- Debate is good. Im just getting started.

Ok so just to be clear your advocating I dont invest in that coastal property?.
What is it with you and smiley faces man? Your not flirting with me are you?

Ice age is when it cools man- We are warming. Big difference
Yes there is cyclical events with regards to climate - Agree
We are supposed to be heading slowly towards a cool period- However due to our efforts we have reversed that and instead are warming. therefore we haven’t speed it up we have have stopped it and turned it around in the opposite direction.

Context man- These cycles take long periods of time to change. The warming we are causing is happening very fast which means we have to adapt very fast.

Yes I did realize that - Whats your point?

No not true - Co2 levels of now are equivalent to what they were about 3 million years ago.
It is true Co2 levels where much higher in the past in fact at some point about 10-15 times higher. However what you need to take into consideration was solar radiation from the sun was also lower. Also we wernt around then and neither were the majority of animals and plants.

there goes that smiley face again WTF?
The rest of your statement doesn’t make any sense

No well informed and honest debate as well as trust in experts who actually study this stuff is the antidote to hysteria from both sides.
Dont get me wrong there is hysteria from both sides which actually detracts away from reasoned debate and scientific inquiry.
K.I.S.S - Good band. See I knew we had something in common!

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Missed the point again…

I give few fucks about anyone else let alone what a bita ice melting and droughts do to them. I really dont care wtf happens or whats done about it as long as im not guna get shafted in tax for it and have other cunts climate idealogy crammed down my throat.

O and I aint much of an emoji user im very simple with them and reckon ill know te reo long before I decipher emoji lanquage.
I figure :slight_smile: means happy and ponsy cunts houses getting swallowed by the ocean and cunts fucking with nature and losing make me happy… once again k.i.s.s keep it simple stupid.

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out of interest prich what have you done to combat climate change???

Ev? meat and dairy free? no travel? No kids? No pets? Or did you cop out and just have a reusable bag the last few years and buy a carbon offset when you travel?

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im bad .really bad .I kill and eat animals, drink milk , eat cheese toasties got kids and grandkids ,have a BLACK DOG , run a smoking old land rover. hobbies include playing with a dredge and a 6.5hp motor. lighting camp fire to brew my coffee that get out of control and make the amazon look like a spark.
im bad sorry and I don’t give a fuck. this climate change is bullshit so I think I will just go out to the shed and finish building my boat

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I see massive opportunities gogold with moving towards a cleaner future. Opportunities to better not just ourselves and lift our standard of living but also to make a truck load of cash.

In fact one of the things im involved with is using left over forestry dross (It usually is just left behind and clogs up stream and rivers when it floods) to make biofuels using GM bacteria and fungi. I see huge opportunity with this for places like NZ. It how I do my bit and oh and I also want to make lots of cash.

I look at solid, reputable and repeatable evidence to form a view point. That view point is open and changes based as new evidence as it comes in. That isn’t called ideology its called critical thinking. Its what the world needs more of. More thinking with the head and less with emotion.

Its its why I dont agree with the alarmists who think its all doom and gloom and its also why I also dont agree with the deniers who think its some sort of conspiracy

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having been in the biofuel industry in the 80s by making ethanol ( could have been methanol) out of way from milk left over from making cheese I think you will find that you will need green product not dried out twigs and logs. there was alot of research carried out at the FRI in Rotorua in the 60s and 70s when I was working there. the cost of production was out weighed by the return. I don’t know I could be “barking at the wrong tree”.
what ever you do good luck I remember my mini loved running on the stuff mixed with petrol. but the end of the day how much carbon do you use to get your clean fuel , its like the bullshit on clean electric cars. how much carbon used to get one with the plastics etc

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Yes a lot of the 1st and second generation biofuels were uneconomic. One of the greatest problems is the digestion of wood to make a compatible biofuel. A lot of this is being overcome these days with genetically modified microbes which make the process a lot more efficient. The process im involved in uses GM modified mircobes and can use a variety of different feed stocks. At the moment we are using offcuts from corn and also sugar beet waste. But is also being used on wood dross

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Actually Kiwikeith Id be keen to know some more detail from you. Ill send you a PM

cheers

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it was clandeboye where I worked in this field. at the time we were considering planting sugar beet but the owner was alittle shifting and it all caught up with him so it all closed down. we were running big stills . didn’t take much notice at the time but now I wish I had.

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We explored planting hemp for biofuel but MOH put a few hurdles in to get licenced, Biofuels is 1 area im interested in but dont know enough about to have a crack.
I like the idea of waste wood being used but pellet/chip fuel is starting to use up the better part of the waste product so down the track that competition will mean added cost to production. also seems dumb to turn large swaths of food production into fuel production if we went down the oilseed path.

Prich unless you own a patent to some green energy solution theres not much money to be had unless youre in r&d. most green initiatives are giant money pits that end up with no actual benefit in the long run.

dont know why we worry so much about burning oil theres only limited supply and will eventualy reach parody with clean energy and disapear. theres worse carbon emmitters to deal with 1st.

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Incredible how all the useless mainstream media in New Zealand have been told to jump onto the band wagon and bark to the same tune, it’s a scary precident of press freedom.
They have all been told by government how to report on dick tube guy in chch, which is a scary sort of democracy/ police state.
Same as teachers teaching climate chrisis I guess… Indoctrinated kids to take the reigns…

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