This should get some interesting discussions going

Pfft cocaine mummys. Just some trans atlantic trade nothing to see there…
Now Hsu Xu Sailing off twice into the pacific the second time with 3000 virgins , assorted craftsmen and archers thats the Art of the Deal right there…

Xu Fu (Hsu Fu; Chinese: 徐福 or 徐巿) was born in 255 BC in Qi, an ancient Chinese state, and probably died in between 195 and 155 BC. He served as a court sorcerer in Qin Dynasty China. Later, he was sent by Qin Shi Huang to the eastern seas twice to look for the elixir of life.
His two journeys occurred between 219 BC and 210 BC.
It was believed that the fleet included 60 barques and around 5,000 crew members, 3,000 boys and girls,and craftsmen of different fields.

The ruler of Qin, Qin Shi Huang, feared death and sought a way to live forever. He entrusted Xu Fu with the task of finding the secret of immortality. In 219 BC, Xu Fu was sent with three thousand virgin boys and girls to retrieve the elixir of life from the immortals on the Penglai Mountain, including Anqi Sheng, who was purportedly a magician who was already a thousand years old. Xu sailed for several years without finding the mountain. In 210 BC, when Qin Shi Huang questioned him, Xu Fu claimed there was a giant sea creature blocking the path, and asked for archers to kill the creature. Qin Shi Huang agreed, and sent archers to kill a giant fish. Xu then set sail again, but he never returned from this trip.

Scientists in all their naive know it all glory have finally concluded that there was no concrete evidence that natives of South America ever intermingled with Polynesians…and they have definitively stated that the kumara was carried to Polynesia by ocean currents - well ring a ding ding! Fuckwits - I would have thought that they would have got water logged and sunk after a short period AND due to salt contamination they would not be fertile…fuckwits again!

Funny but my ancestors stated that they arrived to NZ from a great land far far to the east and that land was called Patu-Nui-O-Aio. Well whats a great land far to the east? it has to be South America. They also knew of the bow and arrow - the bow was named Patake Horoeka - will check spelling there - it would have been made in NZ of lancewood (Horoeka) Even my grandmother had the finer features of the ancient people and not Maori features
.

Her grandmother was recognized as the last of the pure line. My family also recognized a tie up with Easter Island which is named Rapa Nui.

Scientists tell more lies than truths - Scientists ‘prove’ what their employees and masters want them to prove - look at the Marijuana controversy!

The above thread about the Chinese is also interesting because once upon a time they DID have huge ocean going vessels.

So who knows - the text book scientists DONT!

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I don’t suppose the whole moriori thing is being taught anymore? You know how there were these people living here, then people in boats arrived and ate them and stole their land…

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Its the missing lord of the rings chapter that didnt make it to the movie, this is the site of Tom Bombadill

my daughter now in her mid 30s (bloody hell I’m getting old) was asked at school who was here before the Maori? she told the teacher the moriori. correct. what happened to the moriori? she replied the Māori ate them. all hell broke loose ended up been called to the school because she wouldn’t back down she had read it one of dads old books. long story short, "we are not allowed to teach that these days even though it maybe true "
one way of taking over land eat the owners

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Since Lammerlaw enjoys reading also. 2 books to read before we settle on who ate who and who came first. This covers most of the world not just NZ.
Rivers of blood. Rivers of Gold
Fatu Hiva
The Maori were somewhat lucky. They didn’t end up being eating by knife and gun. But a few other places had all there people eaten by what ever means extinction happens. So who cares if the Maori ate who ever was here before. Possession is 9/10 of the law. Lol

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Just wait until them Maoris go to the Waitangi tribunal and want ownership of that shiny metal found in rivers and loved by the white man…

dont forget a bit of compo for all the gold sold since those whiteys arrived here to steal the precious taonga.

Just been reading Tony Nolan’s "Historiic Gold Trails of Nelson and Marlborough also (West Coast) which meantions some amazing stories of what it was like in NZ during the wild Pioneer Days.The tragic “Wairau Massacre” at Tuamarina on 17th June 1843 when a supposed friendly stand off turned deadly,Te Rauparaha’s daughter was accidentally shot during a brief exchange of fire by a stray bullet,he took revenge and slaughtered all the entire party of pioneers including Nelson’s chief magistrate Henry Thompson.
NZ Maori was going through a period of viscous tribal land wars that saw many tribes basically wiped out,especially in the south island just as propectors where exploring the south island in the search for gold and the rushes began…very good read if you can get a hold of a copy of these books.

To clarify things - yes we were taught that Maori ate Moriori. Actually this was not entirely correct - Maoris did engage in cannabilism and did eat Moriori but they also ate each other. They did not however eat them to exteinction at all - indeed FAR from it. The MAori people found that the people who were already here had fine features to the degree that the females were eagerly sought as wives and the men were also kept alive largely for one reason - slaves to do the work and menial tasks. It sure makes sense doesnt it? And of course 'meat on the hoof’
My family clearly trace descent from these earliest people and indeed the blood was pure until only about three or four generations back. My grand mothers fine features attest to that.
Moriori is actually one of several spellings - maioriori might be closer to being correct.
Now the fact that we were taught that Moriori were here before Maori is also probably incorrect because Moriori actually settled the Chatham Islands rather than New Zealand at about the same time as Moari arrived in new Zealand.
The first people in New Zealand were probablynot Moriori - they were Waitaha. My family are descended form Waitaha. Also some other tribes of old before Mainstream Moari arrived in the South Island were, after Waitaha, Rapuwai and Hawea.

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its all interesting it depends on which book you read as to who ate who. my great great granddad came on a boat as well. he ended up at akaroa . bugger that must mean I’m French.

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This certainly is an interesting and quiet part of our country’s history, my father has an old book on the early whalers and sealer’s account of living and working here in the 1830s thereabouts, (sorry sketchy numbers etc, as 20 year’s plus since I read it). A whaler recalled having their community befriending a local tribe of Maori. Speaking to a man who complaining of a sore arm, had knocked a large amount of slaves on the head for a large feast… I’m sure the book also spoke of cannon being fired into a " bunch of savage’s from a ship" around the same area, crazy history!

Sorry was meant to say this was in otago peninsula area…

Many cannons were fired at the Maoris and by the Maoris! Tuhawaiki owned two rather large cannon with which he fortified Ruapuke Island - a 12lbr one is in Southland museum and the other is on Ruapuke Island to this day.

Fantastic, Cheers Mr. Law! It’s really interesting, I’ve found a few old Maori site’s with my job, and every time I find it humbling, a few year’s ago I found a large summer moa hunting camp with worked stone from all around the country… Shan’t be saying where that is… You know, claim back stuff…


On the topic of who ate who. I strongly recommend getting hold of this book.
Jackie Marmon was a Sydney Convict serving time on a Whaling Ship who deserted in the Bay of Islands in 1817.
Taking up the protection of the Ariki, Jackies ability to fix muskets made him worth keeping alive. Jackie also allegedly made money selling other Pakeha Deserters back to visiting ships.
Unevitably in that time Jackie alegedly became a Cannibal.
Rising to rank of War Tohunga he fought in the inter tribal musket wars and his account of killing other Pakeha Maori at the Seige of Pamure Pa is chilling.
Great reading.

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As a kid and long before detectors I used to go looking for Maori artifacts and to this day know a spot near Waikouaiti where a large number could still be found with relative ease.
I think I might have about thirty Toki or adzes here plus hundreds of other items, bone fish hooks, awls, stone knives and so on.
Today you have to have a ‘Collectors Licence’ to obtain them on Trade me or at auction. About fifteen years ago a relative got one of those licences and it was numbered about 5600 so I don’t know what the highest licence number is today but I know where one of the very lowest is…I have number 28.

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yes, the collectors licences started being issued in 1896, so how old does that make you Mr Lammerlaw.:slight_smile:

No they did not…very wrong…1976. That is total bullshit about them coming in back in 1896. Prior to the antiquities act it was open slather. I suggest you do your search before trying to make a liar of someone.
As you can see the act came into being in 1975 and the bottom certificate is one of the first issued then it was replaced in 1996 and again in 2008 and for the renewals I requested that my registration number be retained.
1896? - I should think not ‘Mr’ GoldenEel.

Collector #28, not bad. My registration is #2848, just a few more than your good self!

It must go back a while as well.