Guys- A couple of things
The first is there seams to have been and not just from this forum but also from talking to people a lot of skepticism of what Jackie does and his motives. After talking with Jackie on a number of occasions in the past and recently he’s actually a top bloke and very pro mining. The reality is this industry needs people like Jackie if we are to survive. We have all seen whats happened with the ban of suction dredging in California and a lot of this was driven by the anti mining environmental brigade. Ill elaborate more on this point below.
The reality is there are organisations out there that have big political sway such as the likes of Forrest and bird, Greenpeace , fish and game etc. There are idiots out there (and im not talking panners and sluices) that have caused damage to banks etc I’ve seen this first hand not just on my own claim but also on others. I’ve seen it in the Lindis river this year where someone has put an excavator into the river and had an illegal trommel operation. There were tourists taking photos of the dirty water running down stream at the time. I’ve seen on the Marawhenu near Oamaru the trail of damage done by illegal dredgers that have eroded banks looking for gold and left it as is, as they were all about getting the gold out as fast as possible at night time. I could go on. Don’t get me wrong I know a flood does more damage but the point im making is is all it takes is some hippie environmental warrior to take a photo and it provides the perfect ammunition to the anti mining brigade. . There are tons of home built dredges out there and I can guarantee the majority of them are mining without a claim. Every time one of these guys is caught it gives our industry/hobby a bad name.
The second point I want to make is not just on this forum but in the previous paydirt forum posts and having spoken to people I see the same ideas being talked about i.e reestablishment of the miners right, collective claims, petitions to Parliament, areas for hobby miners to use etc etc. this has been going on for years. The reality is not one of these schemes has taken of. Hell ive even put it out there on this forum about giving people access to my claims to get in contact with me - Only one person did. There seams to be a lot of hot air and no action. Don’t get me wrong there are some great ideas but in order to change the system you guys need to be more organised as a collective.
The reality is if you guys want to make changes and have a voice you need to do it as a collective because at the moment no one is taking you seriously.
Therefore my proposal is and im happy to volunteer some of my time to help establish an organisation so we as an industry can be more organised and legit but I’m not doing it on my own.
My proposal would be something along the lines of what the new49ers in the states do but slightly different. This organisation needs to be run using the same principals as business. The first part of any good business is to see if there is a demand or a market for what is being offered. If there is no demand for it then the pin is pulled.
Therefore I propose a Facebook page be setup whereby people that want to sign up are prepared to become members.This forces people to jump through a bit of a hoop and hopefully helping reduce the number of tire kickers and be on first name basis so we can see who’s who in the zoo. Ideas and meetings can be collectively communicated more effectively. It also adds legitimacy.
This is going to help establish what sort of demand there is for this type of service. We then ask for peoples money which is put into a trust or other safe institution with someone independent looking after the money to fund a sound proposal. ( I’m no expert in this and some suggestions on how this could be done please reply) The benefit to this is if there is not enough demand and people have paid then the money is returned to the individuals. I’m not keen on individuals looking after other peoples money as that creates all sorts of other issues. A public meeting of interested parties would need to occur.
Paying members for dredging would be in the $500-$1000 range this allows you to hobby dredge anywhere on claim as much as you want. I’m prepared to put the first $1000 into this. Ill outline below how you can get a claim less than 10 K which would require less than 10 members.
Hobby paners, sluices and high bankers would pay way less and have the same access rights.
The group would ask for paying members to establish a collective claim allowing them and their families ( 2 x adults and 2 x children) to pan, sluice, dredge, high bank whatever on a collective claim. I propose the claim initially be setup in Otago as there are a lot of members in and around this area and the regulations are slightly easier and therefore cheaper to establish.
There are plenty of gold bearing waterways that have good access ( i.e not having to arrange access through a farmer) , aren’t under claim , and dont require resource consent if under 6 inch dredge size. Examples are:
Lower Lindis river below current claim approx for approx 5-8 km- Some good nuggety gold and centrally located
Luggate creek - Bottom 10 km of river
Roaring Meg creek- From power station up stream 5 km - Good access . Its been hammered but some nice gold is still in there and centrally located
Kakanui river Oamaru - near Clifton falls downstream and lower gorge- Nice pickers and easy access.
Dunstan Creek- Access from St Bathans down to Manuherikia - Mixture of exposed bedrock fine and flaky gold
Lower Shotover - Below where jet boats stop to the shit ponds. Fine flood gold. There is deep beds of gravel.
Upper Kawerau river from near airport down to arrow junction- Some nice golds come out of there in the past.
Some of these spots might not be massively rich but would be perfect for a hobby dredger, panner etc to get out and get a few grams for a days work. A lot of people just want to get out and have some fun.
@ Aotea- I know in the past and on the other forum you had offered to help with claim setup. If you would like help or offer suggestions happy for you to PM me.
There are rivers with gold in Otago that dont require resource consent and therefore the only costs are the permit, and linz/doc access. Its entirely feasible that a claim could be setup for less than 10 K in Otago. I know this as one of my claims cost less than 7 K for approx 12 km of river, no resource consent, 1 x doc access agreement , mining permit and mining consultant fees. There was no historic places BS either. Iwi consultation was required as for all MPs but they had no major demands.
I’ve spoken with Jackie today and he is more than happy to come along to the first public meeting and introduce himself and allow you guys to see what he does. This is an ideal opportunity to build a relationship with someone that is in the ear of NZPAM.
If this proposal takes of and as more paying members come on board I think this would allow another claim to be setup maybe on the West Coast or Marlborough but baby steps at a time.
@ Gavin- If your keen PM me id like to have a talk, to discuss how you could help if you wanted to.
If there are people that have skills or knowledge to help out please PM me.
Once you have established a credible organisation with a claim it straight away shows you are prepared to follow the rules and adds legitimacy to your cause. The organisation has the ability to collectively bargain via the legislative process your rights. Governments and other organisations will take your proposals a lot more seriously. This will allow you to better provide a more balanced prospective on the environmental side of the industry therefore helping protect it .I see one of the biggest challenges to this industry is the environmental perceptions by some individuals and the risk it poses to us. Id hate to see NZ go down the same line as California. We have already started to see it with that claim on the Wakamarina river being declined in Marlborough.
The West Coast gold miners association I know does this already representing a number of miners and regularly meets NZPAM in Wellington. They are already achieving success with affecting change at the legislative end.
Like it or loathe it , one of the golden rule in politics is the person that jumps up and down the most usually gets their way. Organisations which represent people are usually more effective at this than individuals.
It time for people to start putting up or shutting up in my opinion. We need traction on this not hot air and people having a moan and whinge. Our rights are going to be further eroded if we are not going to be smart and proactive.
As I said I’m not prepared to do this all on my own so if you want to contribute by way of skills and ideas that might be useful or are willing to volunteer your time PM me im keen to hear what you have to say. Based in Dunedin
#NZHobbyMiningAssociation
Kind Regards
