I have certainly NOT come around to your thinking. If anything YOU misread what I say or are changing your thinking.
My statement never needs to prove or disprove historical records…I cant be bothered with them. Read carefully what I said.
To summarize - the State should own the mines
The State should pay all the workers and ancillaries
The State should retain the gold as a hedge against the future …in monetary collapse and depression only precious metal have buying power. He who holds the gold holds the wealth.
No I do not think as you do.
You pointed out that gold is on a high and I said it has more or less collapsed and to prove me wrong, or at least attempt to you compared with ten yeas ago whilst ignoring the huge price increase and subsequent loss that disproved you.
You advocate selling the gold offshore while I believe in retaining it for the benefit of all New Zealand.
You seem to believe in the present while I look to the future of society as a whole. If you NEED to sell your gold then that is ok after all foreign money might buy it BUT that foreign money has come into the country to buy it…and that is different to foreign money coming in to pay wages, contractors and overheads etc while taking the gold out of the country and thus depriving the people of New Zealand of a secure backup against global ecomomic collapse.
No I am certainly not coming around to your way if thinking…thats an insult!
I disagree with what you say about State owned and of course it is a finite resource. Ironically enough I believe that the Macraes goldfield is poor compared with another area I know of and which Glass Earth assayed samples for me. The only qualms about State owned assets is that they never seem to be managed as well as they could.
At the end of the day my contention is that gold is a far better asset than paper money, land or any other tangible asset and therefore by whatever means gold mined in New Zealand should belong to New Zealanders.
If you wish to make historical comparisons then back in 1970 I had an ounce of gold…that was $35. It also cost me $500 for an FN FAL .308 with a Hensoldt Wetzlar sniper scope…the equivalent of 14 ounces of gold. Today that same rifle, alas long gone, would only cost 2 ounces, in other words despite its ups and downs gold trends up and therefore and in using that analogy gold has increased in purchase power…it is therefore the best asset against the future global market that NZ could have. See
Further examination of your points is needed these are:
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Advocating the state keeps the gold it mines and stockpiles or hedges the gold.
The issue with this is the costs associated with mining have to be borne by the tax payer. This essentially means the state has to prop up the mine while you wait for your so called “monetary collapse” in post 61.
The other disadvantage to this is if the price of gold stagnates or drops which is basically saying your cost of producing the gold is higher than what you can get for it then when do you pull the pin and stop producing more gold?. A business cannot wait around in the hope that this so called “monetary collapse” you speak of is going to occur. -
This monetary collapse you speak of:
What is the evidence this is going to happen? Id be keen for you to supply some evidence from reputable economic publications for this. Also what economic macro indicators point to this situation happening?
You need to consider the world economy is vastly different to what it was 20, 30, 50 years ago. the fact is economies are way more interconnected than what they were 20-30 years ago. The advantage of this is that any knocks to world economy can be better managed more quickly. The other point is that western economies are more liberal in their economic thinking. Meaning if there were signs of a economic collapse they are more likely to put measures in place on a collective level to avoid a spiraling downward effect. A classic example of this was the economic downturn in 2007-2008 which although bad was actually managed quite well by a lot of countries including NZ. This resulted in its effects not being as bad as they could have been. What it actually did was force countries to be more innovative and efficient in the way they do business resulting in countries like NZ experiencing good economic growth post this event. -
Gold being a secure economic backup
This stockpile of gold you expect to use in a monetary collapse what will it be used to purchase? How do you expect to trade with it?
The problem you have here is that during a monetary or economic collapse economics 101 states people still need the basics like food, shelter and fuel to name but a few.
NZ is in a prime position to supply at least 2 of the above. Its temperate climate and expertise in farming is perfect for growing protein based food to its own people and the rest of the world and it has the 5th largest exclusive economic zone containing abundant resources such as fish, and seafood.
We are also incredibly efficient with our wood/textile industry which is a perfect building/clothing product providing shelter and is renewable.
We also have renewable electricity reserves by way of hydro and geothermal production meaning we can also process and refine the above to the world cheaply if it all goes to shit…
Your so called gold stockpile is finite and is on rocky ground. This so called monetary collapse you speak of will result not in vast numbers of people heading for the hills but in growing food and providing labour to feed its own populace and the world. It will also result in what kiwis do best in tough times and that is improvise and innovate and punch above their weight. This carries alot more Mana and respect than your pile of gold. -
You disagree about what I say about "state owned mining"
What specifically do you disagree with? because you contradict your self whereby you say "state owned assets never seam to be managed as well as they could " in post 61. If you still standby this comment then this is a pretty big admission on your behalf and could mean the difference between your so called state mining being successful Vs it being a flop. -
Your contention Macreas goldfield is poor.
It may be poor but it is vast and ideally suited to the style of extraction it uses. Not quite sure what your point is here? Yes there are other areas that are richer but they have less of a total resource. Glass Earth tried to make money out of their operations at Drybread, Matakanui, Poolburn etc however the costs were greater than what they produced (although they did have some short term success with some projects) and they ended up pulling out of Otago ( I know they did sell some of their assets to other companies). Im glad you bought this up as it further validates my point around risk in mining and if mining were state owned then the risk of developing a resource and then finding out it costs the business more money than it produced by way of gold is not smart business.
Many Regards
Gold & Silver…always been money, always will be money.
Back on topic, has anyone seen a japanese ripoff of a terrible american motorcycle floating downstream past their claim lately? where has Jackie been this winter? don’t tell me we are indirectly funding him to do only summer motorcycle trips and write up this load of bollocks in the winter months?
Has he even caught a single poacher?
Not looking like a very good return on investment, in fact no fenian has pulled such a swindle since the days of Thomas ‘The Lovely Flower’ Walsh and the ill fated ‘Golden Crown’.
Obviously you gave nothing better to do than argue…yes Macraes us vaste and I strongly suspect that where I speak of may be much more extensive, Glass Earth certainly thiugh so as discussions with them in my sitting room indicated and why they never went ahead I gave no idea.
As for stock piling Gold as I advocate enough could be sold to cover costs if need be or to sustain the operation. It could be offered to New Zealand investors possibly on the condition that it dies not go off shire…yes I for one would buy it, even on these conditions as it is still a hedge against financial collapse.
I note that you refer back to historic prices and compare with today. As I said Gold us at a low compared with its high a few short years ago BUT it tends upwards, will recover one day and surpass previous records.
I am not going to argue about it as I clearly see that you support the International Bankers desire to rape our country and take possession of what is ours while quoting seemingly plausible facts to attempt to prove your point.
In the ebd you will find that the paper or us it plastic now that they gloatingly give you for your gold will be worthless and will not feed your family but that last nugget you keep will…because it and only it, will have value in a world where elitist bankers are the very ones stockpilling OUR gold, bankrupting our country, while the gullible like you seem to be support them.
We seem to differ in opinion and I have said my piece and dont need to say more.
What was this thread about now? I thought it was about Irishmen on motorbikes.
I wouldn’t call it arguing however I would call it healthy debate which is all good.
Gullible - Yes I am gullible mainly to beautiful women with long legs and blonde hair… although brunettes are all good as well!.
The international bankers you speak of - Not sure who they are but I sure hope their not the same “beings” that crashed a strange craft at Roswell and were taken to area 51 otherwise we’re all f#@*#ed and we will need all the luck of the Irish to get ourselves out of that hole.
On a more serious note - As for the points raised above - No im not gullible. My position is based on looking at the evidence and using reasoning and facts to form judgments. This I find is the best way to plow through the tide of fake news, and conspiracy bullshit that is spewed around our world sometimes.
This above is probably why I like gold mining so much it appeals to my need to look at all the facts , details and technicalities to find and extract the gold. Ya gota love it!!
Kind regards
Have you ever thought that the truth you are fed is often the lie and within the bounds of the conspiracy theory lies the truth…just a thought.
As for Roswell…I will have two please… saves petrol. I saw a flying saucer once, well to be honest it was a plate. It hit the wall beside me.
Well you did so well that I assume you have set a new tape record.
I think its been mining gold…without a permit to…I have every reason to belive that a certain Irish gentleman would like to tangle it up in red tape.
The more I look at that green UFO you have so lovingly drawn the more it looks like a certain female body part…although slightly inverted.
Is the tape being used to stop it getting pregnant?
I believe all state owned assets should be returning their profits (minus capital reinvestment & cash flow capital) to NZ citizens, directly into OUR pockets. It’s our asset NOT the politicians, that way we are not subservent to government flipfloping and political allocation of our resources.
As for carbon, we should be doing far more research on it. It is probably the MOST useful element on the periodic table.
Burning it for fuel is the least valuable use.
That is correct, but also wrong.
We do need to attract international investment, and create a high tech industry in nz. We need to be adding value here, and R&D, having locals create & own patents etc.
Tangible assets such as gold have great value, not affected by inflation, can be physically used (make jewelery etc) if the price ever drops lower than purchase price. Not taxable, if you know what you’re doing. Also most precious metals are undervalued (gold is about right at the moment).
There are many uses for precious metals, their true technological value has not been realised.
The only risk is if we find a massive amount of it, or find a way to extract large amounts.
For gold that will be the worst, for the others it won’t be so bad, as they can still be isotopically separated which adds value.
always love to see the racist comments on here, shows the people not to listen to. I have been a volunteer with St Johns and LSAR , awarded New Zealander of the year for my charity work in New Zealand and worked here as a Police officer in places no one else would. Oh and yes I do read the comments on here.
The bike I use is a BMW GS 650 not a Japanese bike 
The other photo you are talking about was taken at a charity ride on my own bike, and to date I have recovered over $500,000 in taxes, and no very little of that came from small time poachers. On the point of the West Coast I did live there for seven years before moving to Wellington to take this role, and between leaving the NZ police and starting this role I worked in mining compliance.
What year was that? 2010? Nah that was Sir Ray Avery, 2011? Nah that was Sir Paul Callaghan, 2012?? Nah that was Sir Richard Taylor, 2013?? Dame Ann Salmond, 2014? Dr Lance O’Sullivan, 2015? Sir Stephen Tindall, 2016 was it? Nah that was Richie McCaw, well everyone knows it was Taika Waititi this year … and the awards don’t go back any further.
West coast local hero category 2016 kiwibank New Zealander of the year awards
Ohhh one of the 600 medals they give out every year to just about anyone who gets nominated, over a dozen other ‘local heroes’ and the number goes up in the larger centers, literally all you need to do is organize a high school production … a bit different from ‘New Zealander of the year’ but I wouldn’t put it past you putting a spoonful of sugar on it, well not after this beauty of a quote "When travelling up the glacial rivers that thread through parts of New Zealand’s rugged South Island Jackie Adams often uses his 1,500CC motorbike to move quickly over the shingle beds."
don’t believe what you read in the papers I was never a colonel either only a corporal. I use a gs 650 and I don’t ride along river beds. The big bike is one of my own that I ride. Thought you would have been able to see through the very clear mistakes the UK media made. The point I was making is I may be from overseas but hardly a freeloader and I am contributing to the community’s I live in. The award was for founding the ride of respect in NZ. No issue with people not liking the job I do but don’t see why me being Irish has anything to do with it.
Hi Jacky part of this topic is discussing the idea of lobbying a few Members of Parliment for the return of the Miners Right or Fossickers Licience, with your experiance and contacts do you have any thing to contribute to that part of the discussion?
Looks like a bit of animosity to jackie. Dunno why he’s doing a bloody good job in my opinion.
Protecting peoples hard earned money who have the balls to put there money where their mouth is and stump up for a claim. Happy to pay extra in permit fees for the protection.
Your best bet is to speak with your local mp or with Judith Collins as she is the minster who looks after mining. You can also speak with your local doc office to see if they would be willing to apply for a public fossicking area in your region. Doc have been good and supporting these areas if there is interest