Im sure many of you have seen this auction, with the rain starting and the ground softening im getting inspired to find some cool old sites to canvas (Legal of course!)
If that’s the button in the photo then it sure in hell had not lain in the ground that long but if I had seen if I would have been keen as it’s a very nice button indeed.
I have seen a few buttons from up that way and they are really relics but at the same time interesting and well worth having.
Hate to burst your bubble Matt, but have a read of this…
One reason you will find why we dont let it be known what we get up to. And yes, there are great relic finds still to be had:laughing:…under cover. The HPAct is farcical as far as I am concerned…hypocrites destroy history…the new expressway went right through the middle of Rangariri battle ground. One of the many instances of destroying history.
I really think reading between the lines there maybe more to this story than is been printed
I agree with Keith whole heartedly. He should have photographed the site and also the open space he went through (if that was so) - if it looked like a demolition zone then things were hardly orderly!
This total twaddle about Archaelogical assessments of sites is going too far. Bottle dumps are a dime a dozen and they can only tell 1) what was used within that particular property or environment 2) the most popular commodities - beer, whisky, gin, Cherrys Toothpaste, Davis’s painkiller and so on 3) the items in every day use at that particular time in history.
And who reads all of this - reports, thesis’s and fact files hidden in musty archives that no one except researchers researching the past ever get to see. - now there is some value in this but what is the point in a Thesis - ‘The Drinking habits of the Mcgillicuddy District Pioneer Settlers Compared with the Drinking Habits of The Kaipara Gumdiggers as Ascertained by the Analysis of their Local Rubbish Dumps’
Now many years ago I dug a dump and the old black beer bottles were so common that I reburied them all nicely stacked and orderly - someone is going to dig that up one day in how many years hence and write a report on the orderly habits of the miners of such and such a district…which would be entirely false as attested to by the number of glass fragments all over the place!
Coilpower is right - the Authorities dont care - they dont give a rats arse if it is something that THEY WANT to do as in the Rangiriri battle site and what can you see of Gate Pa now which is pitiful?
Its actually about CONTROL, erosion of rights and suppression of rights - subtle but surely big business, councils and the emerging ‘elitists’ are suppressing rights - bottle digging and treasure hunting, gold panning, firearm ownership.
One of the ironies is that if he found them and did sell them then a lot of happy collectors have representative examples of these bottles and everyone KNOWS what is important - how common they were or how rare they were, era in history they were used, methods of manufacturing and so on BUT if a museum gets them then they sit on shelves and are put away in boxes and NEVER see the light of day and what in fuck is the point in that?
The sheila behind the desk at the Otago Early Settlers Museum - now called Toitu - said that only 3 percent of their exhibits are on display in what is now a fucking art gallery more than a museum. Their gold display is the most disgusting presentation ever - I had to ask where it was and when it was pointed out I had actually passed it twice. I have TEN TIMES more gold fields stuff frommany years back than they h ave on display.
I dont agree with the guys behaviour but at the same time he should have been fined $1000 or similar - they went overboard.
Everyone has different experiences, but I have had some fairly positive ones with regional archaeologists since metal detecting, they do, however, take a little warming up to you, the local relationship began with threats of prosecution (seriously) that I smiled through and spoke calmly with the person about (I was bringing them a coup and wasn’t impressed I got that and said so) and since then I have been asked to please keep looking, but it’s two way. Since beginning, I’ve co-listed two sites in Archsite (one European and one Maori (I know they didn’t use metal, it was unmissable)) locally to where I am and while the regional archaeologist got paid for the technical listings (small gripe there), I have since been paid in trust earned and opportunities as well as being asked to confirm that their site schematics are a true representation (I’ve got credibility) and the learning, at the moment I’m into loams and being able to tell the difference between a disturbance or not, I can, however, tell if it is a dunny, and I’m not talking about obvious recent dunnies.
However, none of this has been without early errors on my part. I’d say if you want to learn and let people know you do, most of them want to help. I understand bottle collectors are a bit of an issue, quite intrepid are some, but you can learn something more than just the drinking habits of miners from a proper site assessment, the information gained can tell you about commerce, logistics, wealth levels and so on, to prove or disprove what is known, granted it isn’t interesting to everyone. Things like that need a 360 degrees view and many eyes to decide on their usefulness even if there are many. I’ve been on a researched tramp on the Sacra Via (walk the Greeks took to the temple of Artemis) where the person running the tramp, despite some substantial site destruction (talking about individual land pieces spanning a vast area some many Kms), had been able to retrace the route and create a tourist attraction because of what was not touched and I learned things I cannot learn from a book by seeing it. But surely there’s lines and that they certainly need to include places of death and an operational awareness that we do not know where all of those are, given that sometimes we don’t find out what really happened until generations later.
Yes Lammerlaw…I agree with you…it is all about CONTROL. I have felt the noose tighten slowly over the last 40 years to where it is getting to the point where the word “fun” is as obsolete as “freedom”. You really would think that by now, 2019, they would have worked out miners habits, moonshine 'n all…the number of guns/muskets in the country, the amount of gold found/stolen, right down to what underwear every person wore/didn’t wear!!! Going beyond the destruction of history or selective recording of such…it saddened me greatly once to find at a redoubt, a new viewing platform had been built with the remains of the concrete grave/s pushed over the edge of the bank. So…NO RIGHTS OR even RIP can be added to our increasingly miserable existance. …and don’t start me on your rights on your own farm!!! My advice…stay low and dont poke your head out of the rabbit hole too high. Beuracracy does not possess commonsense, nor the nous to introduce historic findings/recordings/priveledges like in the UK. Prob too scared NZ history would have to be rewritten!!!
Due to health and age I have retired from gold mining and one third of my place is under lease now and to protect the natural values the other two thirds is covenanted - yes I am an environmentalist but not one of those fuck wit ones…despite regularly being told I am a fuckwit. Actually I have an identity crisis because I dont know if I am a fuckwit or an arsehole - my daughters call me both! I got my share of gold and more than my share years ago but I never mined on my place but next door, five miles away. I got my place to begin a farming venture and to have somewhere to hunt due to the fact that land owners were tightening up access due to the risk of letting people on and the liability laws I guess. I guess that when you get older you have the benchmark of the past to measure the loss of freedom. Jacinda has become a traitor and guilty of treason in my opinion just as the bankers minion John Key was also a traitor trying to change our flag and the miserable excuse of a man had no loyalty to the country as his parents were both immigrants. He never had any family who served under the flag which now represents those who swore allegiance to it, fought over seas and died overseas. They are not here for the people but for their elitist mates and the off shore bankers. The only sensible party now is Act as they disagree with the new firearm laws and it might be a good idea to work on them to change the mining laws as well. If they will begin moving NOW to rescind the firearm legislation to show they mean what they say then for the first time in my life I will support them instead of Labour whom I always supported in the past plus Winston Peters who I thought was a cut above the rabble.
I’ll skip the politics (no reveals here) but can tell you from an insider of the relevant bureaucracy that it is a favorable time to table such things as coilpower’s suggested “historic findings/recordings/privileges like in the UK.” It would actually motivate some. Is there a link to the UK setup?
The Cook Straight… Here is a link…https://finds.org.uk/getinvolved
We can only saliivate at the depth of history being found in the Uk…and at the same time appreciate the historic events behind each found item as the said item would tell a story and provide glimpses to the past…even the USA have priviledge to Civil War era finds. Must NZ be so backwards in coming forward or be so draconion???..MAYBE they haven’t worked out how to tax metal detectorists yet!!!
I am just watching the History Channel with a story…The Curse of Civil War Gold …to do with Colonel Pritchard with guest detectorist Gary Drayton. Fascinating…BUT DO NOT DIG HOLES LIKE HIS HELPER!!! Eeeek…my holes leave no footprint…
I think I’d read somewhere that their gold rule was 10% to government on public land, which is acceptable, but probably wont pay for a regional finds liaison infrastructure, just read that they have different rules on treasure as they define it but we probably only need the archaeological treasure part of it, most of the things I have found and donated I have not asked for payment but I try to get the land parcel number from the ‘walking access NZ’ site even though I am seldom asked for it (perhaps I should be?). In some cases there is comparable legislation in place (like for exporting protected objects), and in others, like happenstance small gold finds, where there’s gaps that mean nobody wins. Interesting, I’ll have a think.
In this article the museum is called an object research library/archive and discusses an apparent public misconception that museums are about displays, thought it might be interesting…https://www.nzgeo.com/stories/whats-the-point-of-museums/?source=footer
The entire concept of museums has changed and the FUCKWITS wiith degrees and ‘text book experts’ are trying to turn them into art galleries where you put a four gallon tin can in the middle of the room and everyone goes around extolling the virtues of this amazing container from fifty years ago as though it is some sort of religious relic and icon of the Last Supper.
I have had this argument twice - once with the lady behind the desk at ‘Toitu’ whatever in fuck that means (I am only 1/4 Maori so how in hell am I expected to know?) which is what used to be the Otago Early Settlers Museum. I asked her where the Gold Mining display used to be and she said “Over there” and pointed. Well bugger my days I had walked past that small display case a half dozen times. It is PITIFUL.
Dunedin WAS the gold mining Capital of New Zealand and just after gold was discovered at Gabriels Gully Dunedin became Capital city of New Zealand - and yet the Goldfields display is non existing - Otago Museums Goldfields display is far better.
The subject came up again last weekend when I sat on a panel to discuss the Otago Museum’s new Maori Exhibition!
Personal I love the old Museums where you saw thousands of things, got hidden amongst the exhibits, and needed to go back again time and time again to take it all in.
Its all about control and a few half wits telling us what we want to see. A funny thing that comes out of this is that many years ago I lived in all male camps amongst people who were grounded, down to Earth, totally loyal and realists and then late in life I took another completely opposite turn - I became a late in life academic. I disliked most of them…mens amongst boys and boys amongst men, text book experts and most of them so far up there own arses that its a wonder they dont turn inside out.
Today the best Museums are small country towns - Arrowtown, Waimate and so on where you can still go and get lost in all the great artifacts. The big town Museums where all the highly paid academic dipsticks work are no where near as fun though Otago Museum isnt too bad. Strangely enough at Otago Museum last weekend two people made disparaging remarks at how Te Papa is only a glorified Art Gallery and Auckland Museum isnt much better.
NZ hasn’t had a management structure where curators are the charge of a subject and its periphery rather than a museum business unit or sub unit within it, like Lucy Worsley, and what she does, for UK history in her role as curator for Historic Royal Palaces, maybe it’s the model? Any chance of being the change you want to see or knowing someone who does? A good NZ on Air funded pitch?
I’d watch a good NZ Gold documentary if it includes the full story, all the robberies and lack of law and order, the geology, the characters and so on.
At least in your later in life role you are more likely to see the archives if you ask, actually I have no idea if it is like a library and you can see it if you ask, is this the case?
You arent likely to get the full story in Fairy Land (New Zealand) because of the Walking Dead who run the show. If you could see a full documentary on ‘the full story, all the robberies and lack of law and order, the geology, the characters and so on’ then it would be raw history at its best - the US makes great tourist dollars out of the ‘Gunfight at the OK Corral’ but the ‘Gunfight at Gabriels Gully’ has been wiped from the history books. I doubt if anyone can even Google it! The Armed robbery of the Switzers Store keeper would also make good viewing. According to History today it seemed to be a cotton wool lifestyle and everything was perfect…but the truth was far from it. This is a small part of an already ‘sanitized’ version dating back to 1930
Funny after taking to an English engineer he said they put stuff this old in the rubbish over there as its was not considered antique let alone archeological
Yes I would definitely watch a feature length NZ movie of the Burgess Gang…be awesome viewing!!
But alas these snowflake producers would turn it into a music vid like “Old town road”…lol