Lammerlaw does that Registration give you any rights to retrieve and possess pre 1900 items?
MK
Yes that is the list of rules requirements and restrictions that apply - just one of the many to hobble you. Metal detecting and finding relics that fall within the criteria of the Antiquities Act are all governed by the clauses of that act.
In other words you are severely restricted in this Police State!
It might be said that when it comes to European items there are a million gray areas. Particular attention is however given to Maori Artifacts. To me its a traversty that some European ARSEHOLE can make a rule and apply a rule that has nothing what so ever to do with him so that if a Maori person happens to find his great grand dads lost Mere then he has to declare it and the Iwi can apply to take possession of it or he has to convince the ruling authority that is is his great grand fathers and he has a right to it.
If however the Toki or artifact was found prior to the Antiquities Act of 1975 then its yours or who ever has it BUT it can only be sold to a registered collector.
Part of these rules are so that our artifacts are not sent overseas and that is FAIR as they should indeed be kept here, especially Maori artifacts…
By law I would say that no you cannot retrieve and possess pre 1900 items - by law I would say that if you find them then you are supposed to declare them and if you do that then I might assume that a museum or other interested parties might be able to lay claim to them. I would also say that in the case of ‘mundane’ items a blind eye is turned - after all what museum wants to lay claim to a rusty tin can found under an old gold miners hut!
The law in New Zealand is an Ass - compiled by University educated turd fuckers who given a little bit of power think they are god and in reality are only making their own lives and that of their own children more restricted and oppressed…dumb bastards in other words.
Prior to 1975 the bottle clubs and other collectors had a great deal of enjoyment digging for relics and no harm was done AND a lot of valuable relics were retrieved and treasured. Today some poor contractor finds a dark shadow in the Earth that indicate that some long lost pioneer of Maori had boiled the billy on that spot and it immediately becomes an Archaelogical site - Archaelogists are called - holds up progress for six months at the loss of thousands of dollars and at the end of the day it was all a waste of time. There should be some common sense applied so that important sites which hold unique relics (if there are any) and which can further educate us about pioneer and Maori life are discovered then the discoverers must report them BUT get due credit and retain an interest in the relics OR their value so that they are compensated accordingly. The rules in Britain where there are REAL relics are much more common sense but out here things are not quite what they seem to be.
3 Likes
someone needs some happy pills
enuf said bye folks catch later
I am always happy…do you need some? I forgot to ask where the wirtten information is for you to state that 1896 was when they introduced the licence to collect? I mean why make some sort of cynical or facetious dig at someones age which infers that they are lying without justifying your source of information - I double check my facts before presenting them - do you? So where is the source of your erronious statement? please tell us as I am curious.
Well my money says that it is a fish hook or fish hook pendant - I would also say NOT Maori but rather Pacific Island. Very nice. Looks like clam Shell shaft but what the hook is I honestly dont know. Post European as evidenced by the beads. A nice thing to have.
Was your grand dad in the Pacific or even up Melanesia/Micronesia during the war or as a tourist - if so then the bet is that is where he got it.
Maybe just as well I have no money as my last dollar was spent on a losing $1 scratchy!
Thanks it definitely has some age the hook looks like a claw of some sort I don’t think he ever went over there he did not go to the war as he lost an eye working on the hasty road
Claw definitely looks to be bird of prey, I would say harrier/hawk species rather than Accipitridae (eagle). If, as Mr. Law says it’s Pacific Island design, then could be NZ/Australasian Harrier and made in NZ by an Islander.
Nice piece.
1 Like
Regarding collection of items, I eyeballed a nice basalt adze/toki last month on the beach. Surface find in a tidal cobble deposit, and as it was in full view - effectively underfoot (I stepped on it before I saw it) of a popular walk I collected it - primarily so it didn’t end up in some tourists luggage bound for Germany.
The nice lady at Whangarei museum wasn’t entirely sure of the requirements as “It’s been so long since anyone has found an item” by which, I assume she meant “Found and reported”.
Currently in a box somewhere, waiting for someone from a Ministry to sort out who owns it.
"…As the adze was found recently, it needs to be registered with the Ministry for Culture and Heritage as a ‘Protected Object/Recently Found Taonga Tuturu’. Any Taonga Tuturu found after 1 April 1976 is in the first instance Crown owned. The Ministry decides who should have custody of such objects, and ownership by any interested party can be claimed through the Māori Land Court. It is therefore our role as a Museum to notify the Ministry of your find…[It] is necessary for us to physically sight the object and register it with them. It then has to be assigned a “z” number which we then have to put on the object and it would remain in our custody on behalf of the Crown.
The “finder” is always kept informed of the process and if wishing to lodge an application for ownership or custody of the taonga you are then able to do so. "
As far as I’m concerned, I’m happy. I’ve got the ‘selfies’ - I don’t need more rocks cluttering up the cabinet.
Thanks mudwiggle yes I like it the claw is interesting it’s quite big!
Actually the comment that it is a claw is brilliant and I had not considered that but it could make sense. The colour is right, the basic shape is right. The base of it appears a little out BUT there are different species of birds and therefore it could well be. I like that suggestion but personally a little unsure.
I have spent an hour trying to find one almost identical PLUS mention of the materials they were made from but until now the closest I can get is Solomon Islands - which makes sense - BUT the actual barb or hook remains a mystery. Possibly a claw? Hmm I cant make up my mind!
I would also almost bet - if I was a betting sort - that it is a trolling lure rather than a baited hook. As I write this I am still researching and since I began this comment decided that the barb is turtle shell shaped like a claw!
To be honest i actually like seeing these things and when there is uncertainty about what they are and where they are from then I will spend hours researching. It may not be mine BUT researching is lots of fun PLUS it is a learning curve - so after all the research I have decided - A Solomon Island trolling lure or fish hook made with a Pearl or clam shell shank and turtle shell hook with coloured beads to attract the fish. Probably brought back at the end of WWII by a Serviceman or an American soldier stationed here or maybe even a tourist.
1 Like
On the money there Lammerlaw!
This one at Te Papa is almost the spitting…
Looking at the enlarged original image on the desktop rather than the laptop, the root of the point is too broad to be a bird claw.
1 Like
Wow that’s awesome guys good work on the research! I am happy with the results looks like they are a sort after object
Yes I can endorse this book I have it in my collection there is picture of a early lure that Jack Marmon used to catch fish in Kerikeri inlet. I was up at the Horeke pub which he had a hand in constructing ,what an awesome place what with all the native timbers which was used. I tell you that alone is a sight to see, however I did ask the publican about Jack her reply was not to mention him to loudly around the pub, she did tell me that there were a lot of pines that were planted on his property across the estuary. (you can see the said property from the pub ) the people who cut the trees would not cut one down at the top because they think that is where he was re-buried! He still has an influence on the people up there.By the way have you ever up to the Waiere Boulders that is just around the corner 3 or 4 ks away,(interesting worth a look ).
1 Like
2 Likes
I have only watched the first two minutes and yes thanks for sharing as I will watch it all…my comments so far. It is possible that there were humans here before the time stipulated in the documentary, the woman would not be wearing the cape - she would invariably be topless…GET IT OFF! - in saying that rain capes etc were worn. The Maoris DID NOT come in fleets. They came in a series of individual canoes according to modern knowledge and thoughts. The ‘Great Fleet’ was a misnomer taught in school back in my day - when ever that was!
YES it was the title that attracted me.“The Redheads” - yes indeed they existed. In fact at one stage it was recognized that the ‘old people’ down here were descended from the pre Maori inhabitants. These people had red hair. I am descended from these people and even though only 1/4 I had that hair. It was like nothing you have ever seen. It was jet black until the sun shoneonit and then you realised that it was actually the darkest red that you could ever imagine. I hated going gray! My ancestors segregated themselves largely and the ‘red heads’ lived in a community at Waimate, South Canterbury, while the black heads lived apart. Sadly I cannot find the reference I have to that fact at this point in time so maybe should not have put it but regardless of that fact I have stated what I know. I am pretty certain it will be in one of Herries Beatties books as related to him by the kaumatua of the day.
My family said that there ancestors came form Patu-Nui-O-Aio a great land far to the East. I think I said that above.
This is a topic that interests me greatly hence my comments. Did I say above that they knew of the bow and arrow which Maori never had a clue about - the bow was Patake Horoeka.
1 Like
Yeah, it’s really interesting.
Apparently there are some Egyptian hyroglyphs in a cave in Australia, and Red heads on easter island. People certainly got around on the water back in the day, and they could easily get lost, or blown to remote locations by storms.
I doubt there would have been large groups arriving, more like a few here and there. Though the Moriori were here long before, then the maori came along and surplanted them, then white folk turned up.
1 Like
there is also a story on you tube about the Chinese being here as well.
1 Like