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Why can't you buy a Fossicking Permit in NZ?

Giddy @SharkFinGold

You raise some interesting points along with Sluicer however without being being a negative Nancy here’s some points I want to make:

    • The setup and administrative costs of a fossicking permit are not viable. There are costs associated with managing and administrating this. Staff will have to be employed, websites created, staff trained and then there is the marketing of the permit. What about the policing of this? Who will do this and before you say existing staff within DOC or the police I can tell you now they will say we are already at capacity and have no time to do this. The other part to consider is what is the jurisdiction of the permit ie where can it be used. As Mal has pointed out a lot of land is held by different organization or silos. Who is going to liase with all of these silos to get stakeholders on board? How long will this take?
  1. I dont accept the argument that this will be taken up by hoards of tourists. Gold mining is a niche hobby. Not many people actually know much about it. Tourists are more likely to go on an organized tour where you are shown how to pan etc, your equipment is loaned to you, your shown where to go and finally your given encouragement by the tour guide as well as the history of the area etc. This is capitalism at its best. Your adding value to the economy. if you encourage tourists to go out and do it themselves you lower the number of people you capture while at the same time you reduce the ability to add value to the economic supply chain

  2. Your rights- Im not sure what you mean when you say “your” or “our” rights are being eroded. Im genuinely interested to know exactly which rights (in relation to gold mining) are being taken away. In order to demonstrate this you need to show which right you had and now dont have?

  3. You state that the costs of a claim are unobtainable- I disagree. As has been stated on here many times in the past , if there is so much interest by so many of you guys why dont you go an get a group claim. Spread the costs. Stop trying to reinvent the wheel. The existing legislation allows this. The amount of time an effort your putting into writing to Stuart Nash et al I would have thought could be better spent setting up a group mining or exploration permit. Heck you could even sell shares in it and recoup your costs (make sure you set it up under a company OK).

Each to there own Sharkfin and I dont want to tell you what you should be doing and full credit for trying but I just dont see the logic on trying to push for fossicking permit and/or setup of new fossicking areas considering the work and risk that it might come to nothing when actually you have viable options in front of you that actually solve what your trying to achieve.

Cheers

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I’m with you Mal. “I’m more worried about losing what we already have!”

JW :cowboy_hat_face:

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Wow is this old chestnut still kicking round, if you just have a pan a sluice box, go and ask a claim owner if he/she minds you pottering around on their claim, you might be required to pay something for it, but who knows what emerge. Just saying, stop the dreaming, and find out who has a claim where you want to go, the worst that can happen is you get shown the door, but who knows.

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well put mate think we have our backs up against the wall with this labour goverment it is a bit like the gun law they will not listen just like they are telling the farmers when to plant crop.

Prich385

I take exception to your claim that gold permits(claims) are not unaffordable.

They are horrifically priced.

The basic claim hurts a bit but it is all the bs that goes with a new claim that makes it unaffordable.

Why cant you buy a fossicking permit in New Zealand.

Real simple

The dont exist.

End of story,no arguments for or against.

It is what it is.

You’ll need to elaborate a bit more on what other costs make it unaffordable ?

Not that it matters because i think you already know.

Costs include the below but are not limited to:





In addition to this there are royalties on anything you pull out and keep.

If you can sneeze at around $40k then dont waste it on small scale gold mining.
Other things pay way better

@Jadekayak just a recommendation… links to information are a lot more useful for people than screenshots of website content. People can then investigate further and go straight to the source of truth.

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That MAY be correct Gavin but some of these people dont want the truth.

Some of them are very knowledgeable but simply refuse to check links.

Podting screenshots shows everyone else following or reading the thread what the real situation is.

You know,or should know that this is just the tip of the iceberg with cost associated with ‘claims’

A deliberate ommission of facts and preying on the ignorance of others is lying by ommission.

I am many things but a liar is not one of them

I think the devils in the detail. I think by saying costs are unaffordable as per your post is way to simplistic to a question that is a bit more complex than what you think.

The breakdown of costs you have provided are not relevant in all situations for instance you highlight resource consent costs. In Otago dredging is a permitted activity therefore if you follow the rules as per the permitted activity there are no costs associated with having to obtain a resource consent.

DOC concessions are only really relevant if you mine in DOC land and its usually in areas with wildlife corridors or the like. Most of what you have provided is mainly for commercial mining permits not Hobby suction dredging/highbanking

Re access agreements- Usually these are negotiated with the landowner. Most of the time its a box of beers. If its hobby permit then as has been challenged in the past and successfully won is DOC cannot charge you for access as your non commercial.

Plenty of creeks and rivers out there that all they require is a mining permit which you admit is not to much “hurt” particularly in Otago and your good to go. Thats about 3 oz of gold. If your doing things right with a dredge you can do this over a "“lazy” weekend (touch wood)

Not sure what all the fuss is about TBH

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The “fuss” is about disinformation.

An ommission of the facts is lying by ommission,a lawyers favourite trick-and thsts where it should remain

Vast holdings by huge companies who just sit on their titles is ridiculous small miners dredging areas would far more help the weat coast than the present situation

But do you think that there should be a Fossicking Permit? I believe it used to be called Miners Rights.

Since starting this post, I’ve had very little help from this community. I’ve been told either, buy a claim, or, be glad for what you’ve got!

None of these replies have been helpful in answering the question I asked.

People have said that I should either buy a claim or go and fossick illegally and hope not to get caught.

Throughout this post, I have had a lot of hate and misinformation posted against myself.

I find it quite disturbing that when a hobby gold hunter posts on this forum that they are worried about their rights as a recreational pan shaker, they receive a pile of hate, misinformation, told to basically, suck it up, be thankful for what you have.

But it seems very strange that when those same people who have been very unhelpful in this post, suddenly start screaming about miners rights as soon as their interests are being threatened. (See the Miners Association thread)

I have asked the owner of this website whether there is a double standard on this site. I’m still waiting for an answer.

Regards

Tim

There was a Miners Right but a lot of things happened in NZ all about the same time - Our publically owned assets were sold, our lifetime drivers licences were cancelled and ten year ones were issued, our firearm licences were cancelled and expensive te year ones were issued and Miners Rights were cancelled.
When the Miners Rights were cancelled you could no longer pay a fifty cent fee to fossick anywhere along the rivers. You only had two options 1) Go to a pretty near useless Public Fossicking area which some people think are pretty good but three grams a day is pure chicken shit or 2) get a claim.
Prior to these radical changes it cost me about $30 to take out a claim over an abandoned mine. There was hardly any paper work. Permissions were easy to get. The hearing took ten minutes and took place at the Cromwell Wardens Court.
I think but couldnt guarantee it that overseas pressure from International bankers who have effectively bankrupted this country has forced our politicians to sell us down the drain. What other explanation could there be?
People under 50 years of age in this forum simply have no benchmark to compare 1970 with today and in 1970 all of the above that l mentioned were the norm and the changes took place in a ten year period.

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I’m sure if you or someone started doing something to petition for a hobby prospecting permit or similar rather than just complain about lack of one you would get a lot of support. Action rather than just words are required to make this happen. We just need a champion to get behind as most people, myself included, are either too lazy, don’t have the time, etc. to throw at it in order to make something happen.

This same complaint has been raised here on the forum by many different people over the years. I even started to look at doing something about it myself but soon figured I don’t have enough spare time I’m willing to dedicate to give it the attention it deserves.

If you attack people don’t be surprised if people attack back. You’ve had a number of posts deleted yourself due to attacks on people rather than adding constructive criticism.

I run this site in my spare time so am often absent. I try to be very hands-off, only stepping in when bickering starts getting flung back and forth.

I really wish people would use the self-moderating features of this forum. If enough people flag a post it will automatically get hidden. I’ve asked you to do the same but you preferred the lawyer threat approach, instead of helping yourself by using the available tools - FAQ - Paydirt Community (in fact, I encourage everyone to have a quick read of the FAQ’s as there’s some useful stuff there in a nice condensed format).

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My apologies for any mis information I may have said about any criminal activities relating to yourself…I was wrong and for this I am sorry.
But I will step in and call bs on s#!t so it is not ‘suck it up’ but please be as polite as your demeanor will allow, please contribute but be objective.
Kinda got to think of this forum as an old gold fields pub where all sorts of different characters will gather. some are rough and some have soft hands :wink:

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I remember buying the book Gold in your Bottle from a stall in Old Cromwell Town, I read the book over night, it mentioned the miners right and the next day we went to the post office in Cromwell to buy my miners right but I was one month too late! as it had just been abolished. There is a big photograph of the train going through the old Cromwell gorge on the 3rd floor of the Allied press building on the cnr Stewart St. :slight_smile:

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Yes. I have sent a letter to the right Hon Stuart Nash, stating a rough outline for a fossicking permit and asking for a list of stakeholders who need to be involved in this discussion. I look forward to speaking to these stakeholders to find out exactly what their concerns are.

When I started this post, myself and Lammerlaw were attacked by Gogold. I requested that you remove his disgusting comments that they made about myself and Lammerlaw. I attacked nobody in this post. You had to remove at least a dozen posts that were abusive towards myself. Exactly how many posts have I had deleted on this post outside of the attack from Gogold? Be very careful about your reply!

It seems like you missed the reference there. I was talking about a PM that I sent you, asking whether you thing there is a double standard between those who have a claim and those that don’t.

But seeing as you have brought up the lawyer thing. I was wrongfully accused by a member of this community of having killed another human being. This, I’m sure that anybody would agree, is abhorrent. After such a disgusting accusation, you didn’t think that I would seek legal advice?

On legal advice, I was told to contact the owner of the website. That would be you. To have a policy of self-policing the posts on your website does not negate your legal obligations. The fact that you refused to remove the defamatory comment made against me after my first email, lead me to point out the fact that if you refused to remove it, then that would make you complicit.

Please see the screen shots below. I shouldn’t have to ask twice to have my name removed as a murderer.

But Hey Gavin, I’m in Christchurch, if you would like to discuss this further, lets catch up for a coffee. You have my number.

Regards

Tim

(In my best Anthony Hopkins Silence of the lambs voice) What is your favourite character from Wind in the willows? Mine was the mole…I could easily identify the mole from the rest he had a pointy nose and squinty eyes.
A shark has a pointy nose and big eyes and I can easily recognise a shark, but sometimes when you see a fin swimming around us it is not a shark at all but just someone pretending to be a shark …but your not pretending to be a mole are you…