Yep your absolutely right,there are numerous 5/5A levels around,the Crown 5A level at the #8 Talisman level,dosn’t coincide with the #5 we are looking for which we presume is off the #7 hauraki level walking track,above the #8 portal.(Ha numbered out now),but my mate is doing another sortie on his own,hes been there before like I said in another post 16 years ago,so hes adamant its there and hes frustrated he cant find it,so if he finds nada then I said to him we move on.But yes its the talisman level we were looking for.On the advise of a friend, I probably wont do any more sorties on Karangahake after this,due to the mining activity (or lack of) by New Talisman Gold Co.Thanks for the read, I have used that as part of my research and I always find it interesting reading.Thanks KiwiJW and Gavzilla for your in put.