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XRD vs XRF vs PYCNOMETER


#1


Yes all so very interesting, which one, what are they, what do they do and does anybody have one? I have been trying to find away to get a sample of metal analysed for it’s content, in other words what’s in it?
I checked with the gold and platinum scrap dealers but with no replies. Well I thought no one’s interested in my 94.61g chunk of platinum @ $38.53 per g, let me see yep $3645.32 that’s what I thought. Why is it so hard to move this stuff and why is Platinum so expensive anyway?
This all got me thinking what if there was a hand held machine that would assay the metals for me. Guess what there really is such a thing and you have a choice between the X-Ray Diffraction and X-Ray Florescence it looks just like they do on Star Trek. I don’t think it comes cheap either Have a look at this one
https://alloytester.com/s1-titan [S1_TITAN_XRF_Spectrometer|333x

As I write this, in topics similar to mine, I can see that Mudwiggle has one of these XRF spectrometer’s and is offering a service that I could very much use. I will have to get in contact with him about my chunk of precious metal that nobody wants, see what he has to say about it. I also read somewhere he has an old school density machine a Pycnometer I think it’s called, he mentioned this in “Is it Gold” a topic Chris wrote.
So as soon as I can figure out how to pm Mudwiggle and I hope he sees this and gets in touch with me first, because I don’t know how to do all this Sh*# Stuff with the computer. Can’t teach an old dog new tricks. I will let you all know what we find out about the sample.
Best Regards’, L.L.

![SDC11855|666x500](upload://qeStLHQcfJjiTYwVMJJjIpNL![S1_TITAN_XRF_Spectrometer|333x500](upload://4 yfXyZt nrHeoXuga8CgZ1XjXmJj.jpeg) 5al.jpeg)


#2

XRD: Determines crystal structure (eg minerals) eg Feldspars, Quartz, Mica, Kaolin - Destructive method as the material needs to be milled and pressed into a slide to feed the machine. Ideal sample size 1/2 - 1 teaspoon

XRF: Is for elements, such as lead, gold, titanium etc - Depending on sample, may need to have bits chipped/scraped off to fit in the sample chamber. Rings and coins etc go in whole. Need 1/2 teaspoon of material ideally to form a pellet, but can get by with smaller amounts, but not as accurate. Max size for single object 30mmx30mmx30mm

Pycnometer: Allows you to calculate material density by displacement of water. Mixtures of material, eg gold in quartz, quartz matrix with voids etc will increase error margins. Sample size 20mm max from memory. Haven’t dug it out of the back storeroom yet.


#3

XRF:
image

XRD:
image

Pycnometer (No batteries required!)
image


#4

That’s some pretty awesome gear you have there MW. Not your usual sort of toys.
You must have a background of some sort in metallic structure.


#5

Just a regular dirt-monkey.


#6

@LoboLover
You can just make yourself a small handheld spectrometer. Or buy off ebay for very cheap.
This will tell you what elements are in your sample, but not purity. You will need to sand a bit off (recoverable afterward).
You can look up spectral lines for each element (wikipedia has some) get an app called CamAtom too.


#7

All this metal detecting business has lead me down many interesting and sometime painful roads, with Coin Collecting, Alchemy, Metal Casting, Smelting and now Spectrometry.
Think I might head over to the University of Dirt Monkey and get me a ticket or two just like Mudwiggle’s got, I hear they have free enrolment for a limited time. Maybe pick up this cheap $70.00 machine from e-Bay https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BECKMAN-DU64-SPECTROMETER-SPECTROPHOTOMETER-NICE-HWY/273666129741?https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BECKMAN-DU64-SPECTROMETER-SPECTROPHOTOMETER-NICE-HWY/273666129741?_trksid=p2485497.m4902.l9144_trksid=p2485497.m4902.l9144 to fiddle with and a little Pycnometer too, I like that thing and become a Certified, Educated at the U.M of D.M. Metallurgist. Open up my own shop, selling our latest product Alchemized Pirate’s Treasure. If you want some head over to trade-me. ! Regards’, L.L. !https://www.dirtmonkeyu.com/store

nXzlJlNSwm84odnG957291421 Legl_Dirt_Monkey_University_popup_2_|690x345

957291421|690x388


#8

Be aware that while UV spectrometry will give you a qualitative result on metals, there’s a whole lot of background process to prepare the solutions.
Bit of background reading. Three whiskeys before reading will help - :slight_smile:
Just like making a cake…

Personally, if it was my money, I’d get a user licence from MoH, and then pickup a cheap benchtop unit - can be had for the same price as a new handheld, and has far better accuracy and capability.


#9

Well that’s it for me then, all above my head. Guess I won’t be tickling any electrons in the garage after all, just goner put that in the Too Hard to Do Basket. I can’t bake cakes anyway, what was I thinking but I do like the little Pycnometer maybe that would do the job, just got to figure out how all that works now.

hg


#10

How about a spectrometer in your mobile phone?

Introducing the XI from CloudMinds - https://www.airaman.com/


#11

Hi Gavin, yep that’s a pretty cool item. I wonder what Mudwiggle has to say about it.



#12

Certainly some neat tech in that thing. Really new on the market. Looks to be more compound based, not a technology I’m familiar with. I would presume the cloud-based database will grow in time as more standards are submitted, expecting the primary precious metals to be in there already though.

Price indicated as USD$23,500 is a tad steep - But that’s iPhone for you :joy:

When you get one, can I play with it ?


#13

Wow, I hadn’t spotted the price! It’s not even iPhone… it’s an Android device :stuck_out_tongue:


#14

Heh…They’re all smarter than I !
Give me the old 025 ‘brick’ anyday.