Cant stand these people , farming is also in for a shakedown …so much for supporting the regions.
No its a good thing - read Brian Jacksons book ‘The Mining Engineer’ and you will know why it is a good thing - the reason is that any proceeds form mining Conservation estate will NOT benefit New Zealanders as NO good old Kiwi will get the right to mine that land BUT the offshore big operators who are alied tot he International Bankers WILL and all proceeds will go off shore…yeah sure we are told that it is good for employment and contractors and ‘that’ is a drop in the ocean.
My suggestion NOW is to approach Winstonand PUSh for the reinstatmentof the good old Fashioned MINERS RIGHT for us all.
For anyone who wishes to comment do NOT do so until you have read tyhe above book because it will clarify a lot of things and tell you just how sinister things are and why Petroleum and Minerals are actually CRIMINALS who dance tot he tune of the International bankers without due consideration for YOUR rights.
Im not reading any book I don’t need to to no that they don’t want any mining at ALL in fact I would imagine miss sage has rolls of toilet paper with little pictures of dump trucks , gold dredgers , mining rights , cows & wal footrot (RIP) to soil & put in the compost patch for the vege garden .
A very intelligent comment - the comment that I made above was not addressed specifically to you but to all those who want to know just what is going on in this country so that they realise exactly why they have only a limited number of fossicking spots to go to and maybe just why it is so hard for good honest Kiwis to get a claim.
The fact of the matter is this - FOREIGN mining syndicates have wanted tomine our National Parks etc and under National WOULD have got the go ahead while no ordinary Kiwis were regardless of whether it was National OR labour and THAT is why its a good thing…it means that in the meantime OUR minerals are not beig pillaged by off shore interests but then again you would not realise that because you dont apparently read books!
I doubt any of us could scrape up the funds to mine anything large scale in a national park or anywhere else lammerlaw (going by the fact a forum dredging claim hasn’t gotten off the ground since the original form started how ever many years ago or maybe everyone’s still saving:) , still the few kiwis that are using a digger & wash plant good on them , likewise any kiwis that have sorted them self’s a claim of any description , the point is some of these large scale mines are spending multi millions to get there , the denniston plateau was something along the lines of 21 million to doc just for access !! & that’s just one , our govt is never going to back projects like that ever let alone some local enterprise coming up with the cash , solid energy couldn’t even last . minerals west coast has had a good input for us small people with our little suction devises along the way but we are all miners no matter how small miss sage has called it to say its a good thing that there will be no more mining on doc land is not good for anyone except the odd snail or lizard .
You point out facts that indicate anomalies between New Zealanders mining and foreigners mining - have you any idea how much was paid to DoC to mine Macraes? Your answer above shows that you dont actually know why any of this is happening but ignorance is bliss. As you said - your not interested in reading the book I pointed out and for that reason you will never actually know nor understand why we cant easily get our own Gold Claims. Before all this shit I held the mining licence over a copper mine - the entire process was cheap and the consents straight forward with little or NO fees and the entire hearing was in the Cromwell Wardens Court and in a flash I had the licence to mine the lode - THAT was how easy it was to take out a mining licence - but its gone because the government do not want you to have a claim and will not allow good honest Kiwis to pan a few colours - all people want to do is grumble and none of them seem to know why this is happening…and apparently dont want to know either - they dont want to know but they all want to grumble and that achieves nothing.
In actual fact Winston and Labour have done the people of NZ a favour - as I said above NO KIWI was ever going to mine the National parks under National or Labour but under National the big International mining companies could have but now under Winston NO ONE will including the big International companies and that is a good thing!
As far as I am concerned our mineral resources belong to NEW ZEALAND but under NATIONAL they belong to bloody foreign bankers and mining companies - good on Winston.
Well said Lammerlaw. Winston has some very interesring policies around mining and keeping the profits of mining in the communitys where the mine is.
I am not sure any of you really know how the world of exploration to hard rock mining works. So here is how it goes in the shortest way possible.
Poor Joe saves up enough money after finding a place he is interested in mining. He goes out and digs a bunch of holes, takes all his money and spends it on getting his dirt assayed. Because specks in a pan mean sh*t in the real world. Gold is measured in part per BILLION. 1000ppb=1 gram per ton. So good luck with counting that precisely in a pan.
After Joe find out he has a cracker chuck of land, he gets the mining rights to it thru the government. Or he did it legally to start, and got his exploration permit. Then he saves some more money and does some more sampling. After he has a bunch of cracker anomalies, he shops it around to a junior exploration company. Because Joe can hardly pay his bills, he works out a cash and stock payout for his chunk of land. If Joe’s claim is awesome, he will be rich. If it’s a dud, he gets 5 years worth of cash payouts and stocks, so he will will have covered his expenses and made some money. HOPEFULLY.
Joe’s junior exploration company comes in and does more sampling, brings in a diamond drill, drills for 5 to 10 years, or until they run out of money, hopefully hits something amazing, and then shops it out to a Major mining company.
The major mining company has the money to hire local people to build the mine, work at the mine, grow vegetables for the miners, raise sheep pigs and cows for the miners, and let the shops in the mining town have a few good years again. And everyone who didn’t have a job and can do a honest days work, has a job they can be proud of that supports there community.
Because I am sure that everyone here except Lammerlaw, can’t, afford to spend $100 million to put a billon specks of gold in to full scale production mine, that is why everything is owned by overseas bankers. I have worked on a property that was found just like that. The guy won the prospector of the year award and is now worth million, if not billions.
There is no way any NZ owned company could afford to put a mine into production with out overseas money. It’s called the stock market. And mining stocks are high risk high reward for a reason. There is lots of gold. Just not enough 99.2% of the time to be a productive mine. But people will invest millions on a dream. That’s why we are all here. For the dream of sticking it rich.
So yes. Big business will always be the main people behind any big mines. Not just NZ, but anywhere in the world. If you can find enough friends to raise a few hundred million, I have some properties for you to come look at.
Interesting indeed and largely as not an element of truth…I think I have said before that such mining should be a state owned enterprise and not an enterprise owned and run by off shore interests whereby the gold all goes off shore. It is obvious that you know everything and its also obvious that you have NO IDEA what’s going on in this country with Petroleum and Minerals. I suggested that people read ‘The English Mining Engineer’ by Brian Jackson and I now suggest that YOU read it then you MIGHT understand what some of us gave known for tears. As for the personal comment about me might having enough money etc etc I don’t think such personal references are called for…and are a sign of limited intelligence. I am actually poor, destitute, bankrupt, insolvent and financially embarrassed but you seem to make false assumptions with no credence…maybe much of what you say above is also flawed! If the State can invest money into state owned coal mines and other projects and a gold venture is evidently going to pay (Ref Brian Jacksons book) then the state should run them. If you actually cared to read the book then your limited understanding might be enhanced and your attitudes and opinions might change
So either the mine was not financially productive, or you gave up because cost were to high for your budget. One reason why over seas investment makes mining possible. And if you were paying no fees, how does the goverment make any money to fix what you started when you go bankrupt? Most mines now a days have to out down multi million dollar bonds. Just incase sh*t hits the fan.
And how I told the story about Joe is 100% true about how big mining works. You will never get the likes of newmont, gold Corp, or any other major mining company interested unless someone has some kind of sampling to prove there is a reason to invest. Read up about Shawn Ryan in the Yukon. Poor mushroom picker is now rich beyond his wildest dreams.http://www.earthexplorer.com/featured/Shawn_Ryan.asp
And state owned companies are also listed on the stock market. The only 2 companies I can find that fit into petroleum or minerals are Genesis and Mercury Energy. The goverment only holds 52% interest in both. So where is the other money coming from and going to. You guessed it. Overseas bankers.
I might read the book. But for now, I work all over the world in mineral exploration. So I do know a few things about the process of Joe, to a giant hole in the ground. Millions if ot billions are spend each year on exploration for future mines. And it was all started by guys like Joe who had a dream.
Good for you working all over the world for mining interests. Read the book then comment and maybe your understanding might be like turning on a light bulb - bingo - you can see exactly what is going on. Yes off shore interests do have financial investment in NZ mining but once again - read the book - it IS an eye opener.
As for when I had the copper mine - it was nothing startling and it was a life time ago. Yes I could have made money out of it but not for copper on a commercial scale because the ore body was never really commercially viable but I did sell quite a bit for specimens and supplied to a dealer in rocks and minerals who sent samples off shore - it was just fun but when the licence came through I was posted too far away to even think about it except during the odd holiday when I did come back and visit it but never to work it and the licence had expired by the time I got back permanently…so that was the end of that. I merely mentioned it to show how EASY it was to take out a mining licence - any good old Kiwi could do it…so why cant you now? Read the book. The only written evidence of what I have tried to put across in an easy to read form for all to ponder over.
Minerals in NZ do not belong to New Zealand - they belong to those very off shore bankers who loaned us money under a fractional reserve banking system to create the welfare state and when you cannot pay that money back then there has to be a pay day and part of that pay day seems to be the forfeiture to our minerals to those bankers you mention…why is it that good old Kiwis have to go to so much trouble to take out a claim - it is because petroleum and Minerals do not want you to have one! Why is it that you can only fossick in 17 or so largely worthless fossicking areas? because Petroleum and minerals want to tie up the rest of the country for the very bankers who call the tune. Its pretty simple but the sheep and simpletons dont seem to understand!
Remember this WHAT IS VIABLE TO HUGE OFF SHORE INTERESTS IS ALSO VIABLE TO A STATE OWNED ENTERPRISE - not rocket science!
Read that. Just a few guys saving up all there gold coins. Only took 15 million but it’s pulling in pretty good returns.
I also have a small dredging claim here in nz. It does cost me money to be able to use it, and even more to have it in the first place. But if it didn’t return more then I payed, I would sell it. Basic business.
I can’t comment on how everywhere works for mining, but I will say this about the Yukon because everyone knows it from the TV shows and I have spend a lot of time working there. Any Joe blow can stake a claim. You stake it, go into town and record it for $100. Now you have your own gold mine right? Nope. You have to apply for permits to build a camp, use water, dig trenches, and if your lucky, start mining. Each Yukon hard rock claim is 454mx454m. Placer 1 mile long by 454 each side from center of claim line. So to have a good claim you need a few. So each year you have to pay your $100 for each claim, or do $100 worth of work. You can’t sit on it for free. Plus paper work and fees to renew your permits for what ever your work plan entails each year.
So it’s almost the same cost for my dredging permit as it is just to be able to dig a few holes in the Yukon. My dredging permit allows me to not have to deal with paper work for the most part for 10 years. Not each year like the Yukon. I know the guys on TV are sometimes makes millions. But at 1 point they were Joe, digging holes and saving money. Living on the dream.
Anyways, just making sure that everyone who complains about how much it cost to have a claim knows that NZ is not the only place it costs money to be able to mine. At least our crappy public areas allow the use of a sluice box. The Yukon is only a pan. And for a place the size of NZ. It only has about 5 areas you can possibly find a speck of gold. You need to spend a year stripping the muck off the perma frost before you can dig a hole to bedrock. So just 1 more year of costs before your mining.
Only one simpleton here lammerlaw …before Winston sided with the loonies we could mine Doc land now no one can or at least in the very near future , so next time you say its good they have stopped it on doc land why don’t you spear a thought for a lot of people ON HERE that do have claims & that they may be concerned about loosing it prematurely , wouldn’t be surprised if mining licences couldn’t be renewed (but just a guess) I resorted to emailing the green party 2 weeks ago with 2 simple questions no surprises they have not replied , if anyone looses there claim in the next few years they should put one on the lammerlaw stream its not on doc land , anyway perhaps you forget this is a mining forum , don’t bother waffling on about your book that everyone MUST READ , maybe YOU should read between the lines & concede that theres likely not one multinational high rolling banker on here with a dredging claim lol ,BAAAAAAAA
I gather you are turning this into trading insult time are you? Are you the simpleton? only a simpleton would stoop so low as to make personal and disparaging comments aobut others who have a differing view so I suggest you have a look in the mirror to see a real simpleton. Once again are you the fellow who said that you have no intention of reading the book that I pointed out - until you have read it then dont accuse others of being a simpleton - only a tooser would do thatand I am sure that your not oneof those…but before you get personal think carefully! Why dont YOU have a thought for all those who have claims AND all those who WANT their own wee claim and read that book - then do something about it! I am the one who cares about New Zealander and the rights of all New Zealanders and especially those with limited budgets who want their own wee claim to work without the huge expenses…now pull your head out of the sand and PLEASE read that book before you make comments to others and then you will understand EXACTLY where I am coming from the the truth behind today. We had not one but three large gold claims and they were easy to get and cheap to keep but all thats long gone.
A bit retarded even trying to use the analogy of High rollers taking out dredging cloaims isnt it?
It is NOT MY BOOK - it was wirtten by someone with a little INTELLIGENCE and unless one understand fully the implications of what Brian Jackson says in HIS book then they do not have one single clue what is going on in this country.
If Winston and his mates go the way YOU seem to expect then I will be very very disappointed becuase he has only advocated a halt to miing in the National Parks has he not? He is not interested in your claim or anyone elses dredging claim - I would almost bet on that. He is trying to stop those very multi Nationals who are taking YOUR gold and assets but you dont care do you?
What is of concern to me is the protection of YOUR rights and MY rights - no less, no more.
Why for Lammerlaw Stream - I just love low lifes who get personal - I bet that you would find that stream far from remunerative and you might find that much of it IS under the umbrella of DoC and also State owned land.
Before you go on about Winston Peters why dont you lobby him direct and see what his intentions are and what your position is likely to be as a keen fossicker and see what he is going to do to protect your rights as a New Zealander and a keen hobby fossicker? I would be surprised if you were disappointed. I might be wrong but time will tell.
I would like to see a situation where all New Zealand hobby miners can take out a claim in much the same manner as they did when we had our claims.
You sure know how to make sheeple sounds dont you!
May i ask what were the 2 questions you asked the Green Party Sooty Pete?
If its to do with mining on DOC land you might get a better response if you emailed the Minister of Conservation Hon Eugine Sage directly.
Here is her email firstname.lastname@example.org
Thanks Westie il use that link , just asked what would happen to current mining/exploration permits on Doc land & wether they could be renewed , I have one that the resource consent runs until 2034 so definitely wanting to renew that when the time comes but no one seems to no anything , except ewe no who , no I still haven’t read that book baaa .
No worries Sooty.
Also when writing to an MP it helps to get a response if you mention in the email that you are also sending a copy of the email to the oposition spokesperson for that Ministry in the case of conservation its nationals maggie barry.
Childish know all aren’t you…stoop low enough to make personal comments, a sign of a low intellect…go take a pill and let’s see if you can conduct a discussion without being a moron and making nasty little digs.
Gold miners were never know for their friendly ways.
You do not come across as friendly but you do not know me and therefore make the wrong assumptions…many a forum member has been with me and might contradict you…if you make personal comments behind the cowardly anonimity of a computer keyboard then expect retaliation.