An idea I’ve been playing around with for a while now and @prich385 has been in contact and given the idea another push with the recent discussions…
The idea is to set up a company that will hopefully make a profit and allow more claims to be added over time for group access. I feel it needs to be a profit making entity as there’s going to be a lot of time / red tape / administration involved to make it happen and grow. Much like The New 49’ers, though probably a bit more bare-boned initially.
The idea is that members would pay a yearly fee to get access to the claim(s).
To get a idea of interest I’ve put together a short survey. Please take a few mins to fill it out if you’re interested:
BTW - I had considered a pay-per-visit option as well, but this won’t provide a guaranteed income to cover all the costs. It is imagined that members can invite a buddy along anyway.
Feedback has been good - cheers guys! I may need to do another questionnaire though to refine the direction it might take a little more. So expect a questionnaire mk II shortly
Still a lot of red tape issues to figure out first though which won’t be much fun I imagine.
Hi Gavin. Well done for initiating this. Had the same idea a while back but abandoned it as I thought no one would be interested. Anyway, if this goes ahead an you need a hand with anything I am keen to help as much as I can.
Seems a few people have been playing with the idea. Red tape and liability issues have put most people off. Still researching, but hoping it’s something that’s possible.
Would be awesome to eventually have a number of claims dotted around the country that are a bit more accessible.
A beach claim might be good. Most are probably already claimed.
Not sure if it would mean More or Less red tape?
Then, again, it’d probably be a poaching magnet
Sounds good Gav ,I’m in,couple of points to add,company could consider taking over existing claims that our existing members may wish to release in time, as many existing claims often already have consents.Visitors to NZ who want more options to look for gold other than just the standard fossicking areas,could buy a 30 day miners right with access to all our claims.Miners right could include good intel on locations where to dig on each claim and also list of hazards etc for H and S.
Could be a good way of financing the project.
Yes, how much would people be prepared to pay? I have a claim, and I have thought about whether to let people on for a fee, but what has put me off is the liability issues and insurances. There are legislative requirements health and safety wise as well the mining legislation, so in short to set something up where people can just pay and go, means that there would a hell of a lot of work and expenditure undertaken to be able to give this kind of service, not to mention the on going inspections to make sure that people are complying with the rules. So in a nutshell, this is to high a hill for me to even consider climbing.
@Mal - cheers, definitely a few extra revenue making ideas that could open up if done right. Also like the idea of buying up existing claims to make accessible to the group (if price allows). Also means we can allow more members and, as @prich385 had pointed out me, could act as a voice to help effect legislation changes to benefit hobby prospectors. @prich385 is also keen on getting the ball rolling to establish some sort of organisation outside of this commercial venture.
@GoldenEel - yep, the liability issue is probably my biggest concern. There’s probably going to be a fair amount of money needing chucking at lawyers to nut that one out unfortunately. Still early days of gathering info.
The ideal claim would have safe access points, or a nice safe one similar to Cardrona River.
Probably need to set up some rules for users during winter & a warning system for severe summer weather events (email/txt). Some tiny creeks can turn into very dangerous areas with a bit of heavy rain.
Yes the ole health and safety can be a little tricky,I own and run an adventure tourism business just out of Martinborough,we run quad bike tours and target rifle shooting for corporate groups on a local farm so I am pretty familiar with writing up safety management plans for different locations we run.
So things I think we should consider are as follows:
First thing we would need to do is make up a hazard identification chart for each location, listing all identified hazards such as shafts and tunnels,unstable cliff faces,flash flood zones,drop offs,slippery rocks,safe road and walking access,clean water source and safe places to camp and park etc.Next list cause and/or effect of every hazard such risk of falling ,drowning,entrapment,debris landing on your noggin etc…and finally a way of eliminating,minimizing or managing risk associated with this hazard.
Best way is by eliminating hazard all together and in our case will mean carefully selecting a good safe location for an accessible claim site,making clear where "No go zones"are located ensuring people don’t go into high risk areas in the first place.
All other hazards would need to be notified,so when Joe public comes on site they are aware of each hazard,a list of notified hazards could be on a print out form which they would have to sign to say they have read and understood before they are given their miners right to prospect.This all would then be written up in the form of a safety management plan and reviewed annually.
You cannot really be sued in NZ as we have ACC but you can be done for gross negligence or failure of duty of care and be slapped with some large fines.
We look at each aspect like this…if there was a major accident and someone was badly injured or even killed on one of the claims, we were taken to court and stood before the judge…and he/she looked down on us and asked what actions we had taken to prevent this accident from happening…if you then explained that we had a done a full hazard identification chart for each location,taken steps to manage each hazard and notified the victim of these hazards before they entered the site in accordance with our current safety management plan then I suspect that the judge would review the case and conclude that we had taken every possible step we could to prevent this accident and no charges would be laid. As apposed to the US where victim would simply sue your sorry arse!!
We have done this to 3 sites we run off,also taking out some sort of liability insurance to cover punitive damages would be a good idea(around $850 per year)just in case a visitor starts a forest fire or chases stock off a cliff etc.
Set up as a company can hold directors responsible so might be better to set up as an incorporation or association with board members voted in?
NZ Gold Fossickers Association or NZGFA ?
The first safety plan to focus on is water safety, as this can be reused without change across a range of claims.
And it is the major danger.
Covering things such as weather reports, flash floods, entering water down stream of tree fall, slippery rocks etc.
Another general safety guide, might be preparing for the outdoors.
Often hikers come along under prepared; shirt & shorts, no extra food or simple survival equipment just in case they are stuck/lost and need to stay over night.
Included in that would be informing the organisation of a travel plan - so rescue services are to be alerted if no contact by a set time/date.
health and safety its a load of the stuff that comes out from under bulls tails. bloody hell waters wet, cold and you cant breath in it, it if you need a plan to sort that out what the fu** are we coming to… yes I know we will have to have one.
I’m pleased I never had to have one when I had my claim, just jumped in the cold wet river with the hooker in my mouth, I’m still here…
why is it when I go hunting I don’t have to have a h & s plan. or when I take my quad for a ride, or any other hobby. gold mining is only a hobby if you don’t sell the gold. hunting is only for fun if you don’t sell the meat. even if you do sell the meat I still don’t have a h & s plan. what will happen if a poacher comes onto the claim without seeing the plan trips over a cobble rock you left falls in the river and drowns. yes I know he or she deserves to drown . standing on their head not in the plan is it?
would all the health and safety BS have to be done if a claim was just to be used by shareholders and family. might be easier to forget letting public use it if that could be bypassed. might add a bit of cost to individuals but could save a lot and less hassle.
@Mal - cheers for the health and safety first hand info, much appreciated! And interesting regarding different company structures that might be worth considering. I’ll do some research into that also. I may PM you for some info if you don’t mind later on.
@GoldPandemic - reusable water safety plan is a good idea. I’d started making a list myself for a generic dredging one with things like risk of carbon-monoxide poisoning from exhaust, undermining risks regarding collapsing walls / boulders, etc.
@nafcd - A fair few people are already getting together and setting up claims with shareholders like you mention. I’m involved in such a claim myself and it works well. I’m hoping to set something up a little different for the people that might want a lower commitment level without all the red tape to go through.
